The Wanderer wrote:
> Timo Pietilä wrote:
>
>> The Wanderer wrote:
>>
>>> Timo Pietilä wrote:
>
>>>> Fighting? 10 feet square room size is small space for furious
>>>> life or death -type fight. Especially for swordfight. You can
>>>> cross that distance in way less than second if needed.
>>>
>>> Yes, but we are talking about *two* such spaces at minimum,
>>
>> Why two? At melee distance that would be just one (on average). You
>> at the center of your grid and your enemy at the center of his. Or
>> you backed up as far as you can in your grid and he at the border
>> between his grid and yours. One space. Two is only if your enemy is
>> in as far as he could get from you and you are as far as you can get
>> from him.
>
> I think we're making different assumptions here, because that doesn't
> make any sense to me.
>
> The two combatants are never in the same square at the same time, so the
> fight is obviously not restricted to just one ten-foot-square space. The
> most natural interpretation seems to me to be that, at the point of
> actual combat, each is on the side of that space closest to the other
one.
>
> If you are assuming significant amounts of maneuvering and dodging, as
> the "ten square feet is small" view would seem to indicate, then
> obviously enough both are going to be moving around inside the available
> space - and I see no immediate reason to assume that each will refrain
> from moving out of their own square into the other one's, since after
> all one is attacking the other; given the possibility of doing that, we
> are then effectively dealing with one 10x20 space rather than one 10x10
> or even two 10x10. (Q. E. D.)
In game terms you attack by trying to enter your opponents space that is
only one 10x10 space and then defender is trying to prevent that from
happening. Even with person that is in his own square _average_ distance
between you and your opponent is just ten feet, which is like I said a
small space to conduct fight.
It would be 10x20 square if you could let your opponent behind you (IE.
push past you).
hmmm...idea: Why not allow melee fight with nasty enough monster to
cause that swap places?
>>> and we are also assuming that every corridor is at least that wide
>>
>> Of course, but it still does make pretty small space for swordfight.
>
> I'm not disputing that.
>
> It is also, however, unreasonably wide for a standard hallway,
> particularly one in which only one person can pass at a time; a standard
> hallway, in my experience, is usually somewhere from two and a half to
> four feet wide.
Well, those hallways are used by dragons and giants too :-). Angband
architecture's is not usual human architecture.
> Such a smaller hallway would of course be even less reasonable for a
> swordfight, and would be just plain silly for a storm giant or an elder
> dragon to try to squeeze through.
Exactly.
> Redefining the size of a square to be smaller would fix one problem or
> set of problems, but introduce new ones and exacerbate others.
> Redefining the size of a square to be bigger would address the realism
> problem you mention, but would exacerbate many other existing problems,
> and probably introduce more of its own.
>
> No matter which way we slice it, there are going to be realism problems,
> playability problems, or consistency problems - possibly all of the
> above. Personally, I would rather have the realism problems and the
> consistency problems (as in the current situation) than the playability
> problems that would be introduced by attempting to fix them.
Same here. But I have to say that 10 feet sounds quite realistic to me.
Timo Pietilä
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