Re: Another soon-to-be-dead char

pete m wrote:
> Timo Pietilä wrote:
>>> =?UTF-8?B?VGltbyBQaWV0aWzDpA==?= <timo.pietila@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>> news:fqma8q$9h$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Eddie Grove wrote:

>>>>> The premise was 150', presumably the very first trip, so probably
>>>>> less than 1K gold.
>>>> Assuming normal player and no warrior 150' is not the first trip. It
>>>> is second or third (so that you can handle Grip and Fang). But less
>>>> than 1000gp is expected if it is that early. OTOH with good luck you
>>>> have 1000gp by your third trip to dungeon.

>> Something seem to have changed in 3.0.9. I have stumbled in *both*
every
>> single time I have first entered 100'. Usually at the same time. My
>> first few trips are very fast 50' to collect tiny bit phase doors and
>> potions of speed and then I go deeper. My fourth trip ends up somewhere
>> in 400' region. Fifth might be at 1000'. I fear Grip and Fang more than
>> any other monster in dungeon. And my death-count tells me why. I did
>> lose my scores.raw -file at some point, but before losing it about 90%
>> of my (dead) chars had been killed by Fang or Grip.

>> Different starting techniques. I start quite slow, but dive deeper. At
>> least with mages and priests, that is. Paladins, Rogues and Rangers
>> might have easier time with Grip and Fang, but I rarely play those.
>> Ranger, while being my second favorite, is munchkin char now that it
has
>> brand and enchant ammo spells.
> 
> There's really no such thing as 'munchkin' in angband.  There is just
> easier, and harder.

If some class becomes too easy it is then munchkin. Ranger is IMO too
easy.

> Sure a Ranger with Tenser's can deal out insane amounts of damage, but
> Rangers don't have a lot more HP than Mage.

Ranger has d4 HP / level. Mage has none. So that means roughly 125 HP 
more at clvl 50. But it doesn't really matter. Even with same HP as mage 
your shooting with Tensers is overpowered. Of course you might not get 
Tensers early enough for it to matter if you die too often in deep
dungeon.

>  So if you really dive
> fast with a ranger, you need to be sure to kill those monsters fast,
> or get away.

I think that is true for pretty much all cl*****. Except warrior which 
can then kill them really fast in melee.

>  Otherwise, you will die.   Ranger is a fast game, but
> it's not munchkin.  The reason I don't play it more is the lousy ID.
> 
> You say you lose more chars to Fang & Grip than all other monsters
> combined.  But that's because you are playing relatively
> conservatively later in the game.

Depends what you mean by "conservatively". I just got 1.1M turn warrior 
winner. It's not about "playing conservatively" its about that when I 
meet Fang & Grip I don't have tools to handle them. When I meet anything 
else I have (major problem with priests is hounds before I have Godly 
Insights, and nastier ones of those are number two in killer-lists).

My dlvl 1000' char has better chance to survive Gothmog than my first 
time in dungeon char has with Grip & Fang.

I could try starting with slightly more money instead of max stats I can 
get. That could solve that first level "no tools" problem. But that is 
minor. It takes about 5-15 minutes to get past Fang and Grip. First 
level roaming doesn't take much time even for staring char. I think that 
better stats will pay off later by giving you easier time deeper in
dungeon.

>  It is possible I lose a plurality
> to Fang and Grip, but it's still a pretty small fraction of my total
> deaths.  I am nearly as likely to get mugged by a Ghast or blasted by
> some midgame unique.  What I don't usually do is die to deep monsters--
> mowing them down with Tenser's just makes the game faster, not
> particularly less dangerous.

Ranger is so powerful class that you can play it easily without books at 
all. Especially after you get that first extra shot. Only thing that 
then bugs your playing is really really bad ID. Try playing one with all 
other spells removed and see how easy it is. Ranger stats are great, its 
melee is third best after warrior and paladin, and with missiles it is 
best. Giving it spells to boost that even further is munchking IMO.

About ranger ID, I think that ranger should have strong pseudo like all 
other warrior-spellcasters. It is slow enough that it would still suck, 
but at least you could be sure that items that you have have been 
pseudo-identified. And big majority of spells removed. Rogue is the one 
that should have more spells, because rogue doesn't have any special 
abilities.

In my variant there will be "archer" class which is basically bookless 
ranger with better melee and Ranger will be less bow-oriented class with 
slightly better non-offensive magic. I give rogue something to make it 
interesting (don't know yet what, but I have few ideas).

Timo Pietilä