Re: Another soon-to-be-dead char

Timo Pietil=C3=A4 wrote:
> Billy Bissette wrote:
> > =3D?UTF-8?B?VGltbyBQaWV0aWzDpA=3D=3D?=3D <timo.pietila@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrot=
e in
> > news:fqma8q$9h$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Eddie Grove wrote:
> >>> Timo Pietil=EF=BF=BD <timo.pietila@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
> >>>> Eddie Grove wrote:
> >>>>> Given the option to trade your blue DSM for
> >>>>> staff of tele****t self
> >>>>> light weapon (+9,+9)
> >>>>> longbow x3 (+9,+9)
> >>>> In 3.0.9 it costs about 4000 gp to _make_ those, so no, I wouldn't
> >>>> trade. I would also assume that when you find that DSM (unless it
is
> >>>> your very first trip) you already have enchanted bow and weapon.
You
> >>>> get money easy enough that you don't need to sell your DSM to get
> >>>> that staff, and getting equally good bodyarmor takes time.
> >>>>
> >>>>> and one group from
> >>>>> 2 rings of int [mages]
> >>>>> amulet of wisdom + 2 rings protection(or something else) [priests]
> >>>>> 2 rings of damage [everybody else]
> >>> The premise was 150', presumably the very first trip, so probably
> >>> less than 1K gold.
> >> Assuming normal player and no warrior 150' is not the first trip. It
> >> is second or third (so that you can handle Grip and Fang). But less
> >> than 1000gp is expected if it is that early. OTOH with good luck you
> >> have 1000gp by your third trip to dungeon.
> >
> >   As a mostly casual player, 150' is a first trip for me.  Even when I
> > first started playing (admittedly many years ago,) I figured out how
> > to survive and kill Grip and Fang.
>
> Something seem to have changed in 3.0.9. I have stumbled in *both* every
> single time I have first entered 100'. Usually at the same time. My
> first few trips are very fast 50' to collect tiny bit phase doors and
> potions of speed and then I go deeper. My fourth trip ends up somewhere
> in 400' region. Fifth might be at 1000'. I fear Grip and Fang more than
> any other monster in dungeon. And my death-count tells me why. I did
> lose my scores.raw -file at some point, but before losing it about 90%
> of my (dead) chars had been killed by Fang or Grip.
>
> You can kill them with flasks of oil (if you can buy them) and are
> lucky. Or with your bow if you see them early enough for them not to
> reach you fast.
>
> >  It wasn't even worth the effort to
> > play a mage at a slower pace, as dungeon traps killed more of my
> > early characters than monsters.  150' isn't even a stop for some of
> > my characters.
>
> 150' isn't stop for me either. 50' is.
>
> >   If a player takes more than one trip to reach 150', then I'd
> > question whether they knew *what* to do with DSM, or even what
> > would be best to buy with the gold if they sold it.  (I certainly
> > didn't know back then.)
>
> Different starting techniques. I start quite slow, but dive deeper. At
> least with mages and priests, that is. Paladins, Rogues and Rangers
> might have easier time with Grip and Fang, but I rarely play those.
> Ranger, while being my second favorite, is munchkin char now that it has
> brand and enchant ammo spells.

There's really no such thing as 'munchkin' in angband.  There is just
easier, and harder.

Sure a Ranger with Tenser's can deal out insane amounts of damage, but
Rangers don't have a lot more HP than Mage.  So if you really dive
fast with a ranger, you need to be sure to kill those monsters fast,
or get away.  Otherwise, you will die.   Ranger is a fast game, but
it's not munchkin.  The reason I don't play it more is the lousy ID.

You say you lose more chars to Fang & Grip than all other monsters
combined.  But that's because you are playing relatively
conservatively later in the game.  It is possible I lose a plurality
to Fang and Grip, but it's still a pretty small fraction of my total
deaths.  I am nearly as likely to get mugged by a Ghast or blasted by
some midgame unique.  What I don't usually do is die to deep monsters--
mowing them down with Tenser's just makes the game faster, not
particularly less dangerous.