On Mar 3, 4:49 pm, pa...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> On Mar 3, 10:32 am, al <a...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 20, 12:19 pm, pa...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
> > > In researching mahjong history I sometimes come across religious or
> > > political references to anti-gambling. For example, the Taiping
> > > prohibited gambling,
>
> > Taiping prohibition on gambling would weaken your hypothesis for
> > mahjong to [be] originated around that time, Dan?
> > And if the game had been the product of the period, during the time of
> > prohibition, why would the game designer choose money-symbols which
> > were in fact saying mahjong was gambling.
> > So, it looks like either the game was not a Taiping product or the
> > symbols in mahjong were not Cash originally.
> [..]
> Your statements may not necessarily be valid (though they may be)
> [..]
You have a point, Dan.
>
> For example, it is possible that mahjong could have been specifically
> invented by the Taiping in order to provide a non-gambling alternative
> to penghe pai gambling.
Interesting thought...
[..]
> values (as well as having possible religious associations) could
> result in a game familiar enough to those already playing penghe that
> they could fairly easily adapt to the new game, but this new game
> would have different winning hands that may not initially correlate
> with penghe gambling. Also the switch to tiles instead of pasteboard
> cards would make it more difficult to conceal the pai (e.g. hiding
> them up one's sleeve) when in the middle of a game in order to avoid
> detection by passersby.
>
First it was not in my time a crime to play cards. And with mahjong,
the noise can be heard 100 yards away. You can not hide the game.
I noticed your mention of "religion" here and there. I am not sure
what your image of a religious Chinese society is like. I know where I
grew up there was no church, no preacher, no Sunday school, no bible-
like literature, no Hell either. Avoiding gambling was just a wise
thing to do. I started playing mahjong at age 15 maybe. No law against
it. Come to think of it. There was no policing in small towns and
villages. Criminals could not hide or run away when no vehicles
anywhere. People seldom do bad things. Never need for confessions.
> Thus, I could envision a scenario where not only could the Taiping
> prohibition on gambling not rule them out as inventors of mahjong, but
> it could have provided the motivation for modifying the game of penghe
> into what is now known as mahjong! [..]
>
I guess the question is "how likely?"
[..]
> > It is far too slow to win a few dollars. It is more a waste of time...
> > As I said. Mahjong was never serious gambling, as I know it.
>
> {snip}
>
> But I thought that there have been mahjong gambling halls
> (establishments).
But that is only where all the noise is. The big money change hands on
the Fan-Tan table. There is real gambling. You can lose your house in
an afternoon.
> All I can say for certain is that at least one Christian (though non-
> Taiping) Hakka Chinese person stated in personal communications with
> me that he never played mahjong because of religious prohibitions on
> gambling.
>
Sounds like some one never drinks for religious reason; no difference
whether it's wine, beer or whiskey, nor the amount.
[..]
>
> I realize that my WW2 example of mahjong gambling prohibition is not
> representative and was probably more a tool to limit the Triad's
> power. It is the only do***ented example that I could come up with at
Perhaps that is because, as I said, mahjong might have been legal and
not prohibited. Do you recall in you reading that it was a game
primarily for the upper class?They influence the law.
> this time, but I am actually more interested in Qing (as well as
> Taiping) examples since I am more interested in the possible
> historical development of mahjong.
>
> Dan
+++++++++++++
Cheers.....al
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