Re: Notes on Tam Wing Kwong, "The Game of Sparrow as played in China".

"Julian Bradfield" <jcb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:ckc09c$otg$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> In article <5878e597.0410101001.1b18646a@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
> Thierry Depaulis <thierry.depaulis@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>Julian Bradfield <jcb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:<e6c4ql2bx0d.fsf@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>...
>>> thierry.depaulis@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (Thierry Depaulis) writes:

"Julian Bradfield" <jcb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> I meant to ask before, could you explain this "he pronounced hu"
>> thing? Are you saying that the character whose pinyin representation
>> is "he" is actually pronounced as if its pinyin representation were
>> "hu"? This seems rather unlikely, since pinyin is explicitly a
>> representation of speech!

and Thierry Depaulis <thierry.depaulis@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> replied:
>>Don't believe it. The pinyin romanisation is meant to represent a
>>standardised pronounciation based *on the Peking parlance*. But there
>>are local variations (I mean in Mandarin Chinese), such as this one.
>>Large dictionaries say that 'he' (match, combine) is read as 'hu' in
>>Suzhou.
>
> In the language of Suzhou (a Wu dialect), or in Mandarin as spoken in 
> Suzhou?
>
> Incidentally, do you know of a multidialectal dictionary - or even an 
> in-print
> edition of Giles?

I have explained (see below) the connection between the differences in 
pinyin [he] and [hu] that linked to the same Chinese word "HE" in a
previous 
discussion quite a while ago. The Chinese word "HE" can be pronounced in 
pinyin as [he] or [hu]. However, [hu] (same Chinese word) is probably used

*only* in mahjong meaning "win". I couldn't find [hu] for this word in my 
Chinese dictionary, nor in the Zhongwen.com website.

In my opinion this use (the Chinese word "HE" to sound like [hu] for the 
meaning "win") is confusing. The Chinese word "HE" also has the meanings
of 
"peaceful", "tie", "harmony" and is pronounced as [he]. These meanings are

obviously very different than "win"! There is a more appropriate Chinese 
word sounded [hu] for this purpose.

My previous explanation was given when we were discussing "Mo He Pai"
quite 
a while ago. I said I am not sure if I should use [mo he] or [mo hu] to
call 
this card game but I continued to use [mo he] anyway. At that moment I 
considered the writing [mo he] was not only to mean to present it in
pinyin, 
but was to allow its reversal so people could track back to the actual 
Chinese word "HE". If the pinyin [mo hu] was used people not familiar with

the discussion would most likely convert the pinyin into another Chinese 
words.

Thierry also asked:
I am trying to work out what these names mean. "Hwo" apparently is for
Mandarin he2/hu. But what can be "Teens, Deis, Yuns"??
Cofa would you have idea?

Obviously, Julian and Michael already provided the right answers: The
terms 
"Teens, Deis, Yuns and Hwos" shall mean "Heaven, Earth, People and
Harmony". 
In addition, I think "Harmony" shall represent the inter-relationship 
between all the other three.

Cofa Tsui
www.iMahjong.com