In message <1146418899.338682.128870@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
Grebo <greboguru@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes
<snip>
>>Superior in every way?
>
>I'd say that, in terms of CP2020 game play, yes. Cyberware was superior
>in every way. Cyberlimbs are just as (if not more) dextrous. They're
>stronger, tougher, can do more (you can pack them with gadjets), they
>make you "cooler", they can look like whatever you want, they have full
>sensory and tactile abilities, and have HC which is, by and large, not
>drastic enough to do serious harm to your Humanity.
>
>>Self repairing? No - when its disabled its dead
>>weight - locked in place and nothing but a useless
>>en***brance till you get it to a Cybertech or get
>>your Medtech buddy to remove it.
>
>Well, if you get shot in your meat arm a few times you're gonna be
>pretty SOL if you don't see a doctor, so what's the difference? Except
>that you can turn off the pain receptors in the cyberarm. And you won't
>die of blood loss if your cyberlimb is fragged.
Again I think it was in Listen Up it was mentioned that an injured flesh
arm will retain some function when damaged whereas a C-arm wouldn't.
>
>>EMP resistant? Only if you paid for it and if you
>>didn't you'll really pay for it!
>
>Cyberlimbs are resistant to a lot more kinds of attacks than meat arms
>are. Heat, cold, bullets, blades, etc... they can all do more harm
>faster to a meat arm than a cyberarm. So cyberarms are vulnerable to
>EMP. Big deal. Meat arms are vulnerable to everything.
>
>>Maintenance free? No way Jose! You skip that
>>maintenance and those arms/legs/eyes/internal
>>organs should be millstones around your neck.
>
>OK, now I know your response to my next statement will be something
>like "In the games I ran and played in, Cyberware maintenace rules were
>strictly enforced, and when people didn't do maintenace this kind of
>thing did happen"...
No, I'd have to agree - tracking this kind of stuff takes all the fun
out of the game. Cyberpunk the shopping game was bad enough without
venturing into Cyberpunk the maintenance records. My point was that you
were commenting on the unrealism of Atomic Batteries to power the limbs
and I was attempting to point out that even this was a move forwards
from 'magic' limbs that never required power or care to maintain their
complex functions.
>However, I really wonder how many players/refs can
>make the same claim? I suspect very few. Considering that the
>maintenace rules weren't even published until relatively late in the
>CP2020's run, most people's games pretty much couldn't have made use of
>them.
Quite so - Like I said it was all glossed over. How many people make a
point of telling you their characters go to the bathroom. It's kind of
understood so it gets glossed over.
>
>Plus, just how much FUN is it to PLAY OUT the whole maintenace thing?
>Do games which enforce Cyberware maintenace rules also require PCs to
>perform maintenace on their vehicles, weapons, and cyberdecks?
If the Techie wants IPs then probably:-)
>Do PCs
>with Martial Arts skills also have to practice and perform their Katas
>every day?
I always found visiting the Dojo to be an informative experience for
characters who wanted to practice. People to meet, gossip to exchange,
maybe even pick up some IPs for Martial Arts.
>Do PCs who are physically fit (i.e., most of them) have to
>exercise regularly in order to maintain their full Stats?
They ought to - Professionals at any sort of Physically based job take
great lengths to maintain their fitness ..
> I mean
>really, just how much is the idea of "maintenace" actually pushed in
>Cyberpunk? Or any RPG for that matter? It's just not fun to play. You
>may as well play an RPG in which you keep track of how much you cook,
>pay bills, go to the bathroom, and brush your teeth.
It's not, but the result is you have no difference in the rules between
the professional Solo who treats his tools with respect and can expect
them to work when used and the gutter ganger who picked up a pistol from
the mud of an alleyway in Salford and who pulls the trigger after 6
weeks of just carrying it around. In reality one should work and the
other.... Who knows... maybe it doesn't explode and fire the slide into
your torso, but maybe it doesn't fire either. From experience Guns that
aren't maintained will fail. That's why military forces do daily
cleaning.
>
>>One of the things that were glossed over in the earlier versions
>>was that C-Ware <snip> powered by Magic batteries that
>>never needed replacement and never went flat at inop****tune
>>moments. Maybe this will fix that.
>
>So instead you have a game that stresses maintenace, gun cleaning, car
>tune-ups, aerobics, paying bills, and peeing a pooping. Whee. That's a
>game I wanna play.
>
>>>why, if you have a gun on your belt, would you bother
>>>attaching it to your armored sleeve when you could just USE it?
>>
>>Dunno - is it like the Malorean pistol that could only be fired by
>>someone with the Cyberarm? Or maybe like the weapons who's recoil is so
>>high you have to be wearing a linear frame or be a Full Conversion?
>
>No, we're talking about ANY gizmo which could have been built into a
>cyberarm. Since CPv3 Edgerunners use armored sleeves instead of
>cyberarms, they can't fit gizmos inside their NuCyb. So whereas in 2020
>your cyberarm could deploy a set of microtools, in 203X you take your
>set of microtools off your belt and attach the set to your NuCyb
>bracer.
>
Sounds like you could well be right, but like I said, I've not read V3
yet - I don't think it's available over here yet.
>>C
<Snip>
>
>No no no, I know that. But that's what Cyberpunk cor****ations were like
>in 2020. In 203X, the cor****ations ARE the mob. Like, The Mafia and,
>say, Petrochem are the same group. And the Yakuza and, oh, Arasaka.
>They're the SAME GROUP. Literally. Like I said, I'm really not sure how
>that works... I guess cor****ate enforcers come to your neighborhood and
>require that people there buy a certain amount of the corp's products
>every month, or else people get their legs broken? A kind of "sales
>quota as protection racket" thing...? It just sounds kinda goofy and
>chaotic to me.
>
>Much like most of the other things in CPv3.
>
>Grebo!
>
From your description it sounds like you can buy your kibble and your
numbers from the same provider. I suppose if the mob made enough cash
selling dope it might buy up Petrochem and sell you fuel. It's just
Evolution in action.
--
Ian Birchenough
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