In article <p4ir03phvbphsjb0hm7moegrrmfp4ddtif@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>The push toward consumable items is one of the things I find annoying
>about 3.x. I can see potions and scrolls being consumable by their
>nature, but it bothers me to have consumable & disposable wands so
>common, not to mention the other misc items that get "used up."
The wands appear to me to be mispriced. It's *much* cheaper
to do a 50-charge wand than 50 scrolls or potions, and it's
generally more useful than 50 scrolls and only slightly less than
50 potions.
They change the game a lot, too. We have not been able to resist
the temptation to buy wands of magic missile for every wizard
and sorceror, at the best level they can afford, because it
changes the character from "I have some nice stuff but need to
ration it out carefully" to "I have a strong magic attack which
I can afford to use every round."
>Especially when making those items costs XP. I can accept an XP cost
>for making durable magic items (given that XP is a "renewable"
>resource in the game - I'm the anti-Peter Knutsen on this point), but
>spending XP to create scrolls & potions rubs me the wrong way.
I dislike the XP rule, because the amounts are small enough that
it doesn't really restrict item creation much, the bookkeeping is
large, and the eventual result of overspending (the wizard is one
level lower than everyone else, on and off) doesn't do much for me.
I'm also not really sure what the PCs think they are paying.
>(A house rule I adopted for one of my games is to have potions &
>scrolls cost XP to *use* rather than to make. This puts a desirable
>psychological brake on the wanton use of such items, and avoids the
>problem of setting a gold-piece price point for them that has to meet
>the contradictory goals of making them both cheap (readily available)
>and expensive (too scarce to just burn through).)
That's an interesting idea. How much did it actually cut use?
>>Jon's _Worms_ characters have made a lot of wands, and their prepped
armor
>>class is 8 points higher than unprepped due to all those wands.
>How much does this exacerbate your problems with the difference
>between prepped and un-prepped groups? If both sides have an always-on
>+1, or +2 or +4 instead of the attacking side having a tem****ary +8...
Makes it much worse, of course. But after the double TPK I feel
inclined just to let matters take their course with these modules:
they are balanced against parties like this, and I don't want to
be in the position of telling the player he can't, and then having
another TPK.
>Mileage varies. Having a selection of interesting items available that
>day at the magic marketplace (but not necessarily just what you want)
>isn't something I find any worse than finding items on a defeated
>enemy/in a defeated foe's hoard. Having *all* the items in the DMG
>being "in stock" does cloy, but that's an extreme case.
I guess neither Jon nor I is very patient with making up magic-shop
inventories. It seems harder than making up treasure hoards, because
with treasure you can think "This is stuff the person would have
wanted". And once the group gets into the mindset of "The small
stuff is freely available for money" they tend to resent it if the
GM suddenly says "Well, no potions of fire resistance are available
today." So we have tended to go with "everything in stock" up to
the town's GP limit.
>And being able
>to "custom order" an item, and then a few weeks or months later having
>something that was *made just for me* is, IMO, *better* than a prize
>from a defeated foe.
Okay, mileage differs. Brand-new stuff doesn't seem as rich to me
as objects with lineage. Fritz is attached to the Crown of Splendor
even though he could do better mechanically, because it's got a
chip from a Soul Pillar in it, and connects in his mind with the
whole story of how he learned about the Soul Pillars, and that
late-night confrontation with his sister over them.
When they custom-order something it is usually, alas, a boring
utility item: the latest trend is wands of searing light at
level 10, and they have owned too many of those to be excited by
any one of them.
>Stricter stacking & slot limits will also encourage high-level types
>to invest in a smaller number of bigger items, at the cost of
>increased bookeeping (and at a cost of characters trying to find ways
>around the limits).
A month or two ago I made a big table and shuffled items around
my SCAP party, getting about +1 AC across the board by using the
slots a little better--definitely too much accounting for my
tastes. It turned out to have been a mistake from the character
point of view, as Tillie keeps moping about her cloak of arachnidia
and I'm just going to have to shuffle everything back so that
she can wear it again.
But a lot of the "bigger items" turn out to be +3 protection
or +3 greater protection rather than anything more interesting.
The AC boosts and save boosts are a survival necessity in these
modules. But they are not very interesting despite being
essential. Maybe that's my biggest problem with how the items
are working out.
>Anyway, if you could do more with non-magic items, the same creative
>effort would also let you do more with minor magic items. And
>"interesting, flavorful oneshots" are something I'd prefer not to see
>emphasized due to my own varying mileage.
Fair enough.
We have had our share of interesting minor magic items, but the
slot limitations mean they tend to be discarded in favor of
boring essential AC, save, to-hit, and damage boosts. The one
that pained me most greatly was the ring of fire resistance Jules'
father gave her, which was a pointed hint about the invasion of fire
elementals, as well as the only present he'd ever given her that
acknowledged her life as an adventurer. It would stink to lose
the PC because she wore that and not the +3 pro/+3 resist combo
that the other PCs have. But it also stunk not to wear it. (This
comes around to "These adventures are too hard for me", I guess.)
Jon's _Worms_ party doesn't have a single magic item that
stands out for me as being part of a characterization: they
have tons of items and use them constantly, but it's all a big
blurry item pool. I find this kind of sad, but maybe he is
deliberately saving the interest for class abilities. The
SCAP party does have a couple: Fritz' crown, Tillie's bow and
cloak, the Elixer of the Divine Wind.
Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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