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Gaming > Debate > Re: mechanics o...
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Re: mechanics of surprise

by John Morrow <morrow@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mar 7, 2007 at 11:20 AM

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Mary K. Kuhner wrote:
> Rating difficulty seems to be excruciatingly hard; the published
> material can't do it consistently at all.  (Just hit two nasty examples
> of this, back to back, and it may have killed the campaign.)

Oh, absolutely.  But from what I understand 3.5 does a better, though 
still not perfect, job of it. The d20 Grim Tales Creature Creation system 
(which you can buy as just that chapter and PDF for about $8 from 
www.rpgnow.com) has gotten a lot of good reviews for estimating relative 
power ratings.  I think it uses a slightly different scale but is 
convertable to CR.  I have a copy that I've never used but it looks pretty

good.  It's a bit of work to use, but it might be worth a look for you if 
you plan on using d20/D&D for more things.  It might also help you confirm
your suspicions about bad CRs.

> And the way that difficulty scales with numbers also depends
> critically on the kind of opponent, as my GM found out with the
> harpies.... (Eight harpies at once will beat nearly anything
> that is not completely immune to them, including parties who
> find one or two totally unthreatening.  This is not at all true
> for orcs.)

That problably becomes a big issue with anything that requires saves.
Demand enough saving throws and most of the party will fail one or
more.

John Morrow
 




 179 Posts in Topic:
mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-21 22:26:49 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-02-21 16:39:00 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Eric P. <ericpNOSPAM06  2007-02-22 05:18:52 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Rick Pikul <rwpikul@[E  2007-02-22 01:22:25 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-22 20:29:25 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Rick Pikul <rwpikul@[E  2007-02-23 02:24:57 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-02-22 14:46:49 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-23 00:06:43 
Re: mechanics of surprise
tussock <scrub@[EMAIL   2007-02-24 00:47:54 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-02-23 07:58:52 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-23 20:44:53 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-02-23 19:50:07 
Re: mechanics of surprise
tussock <scrub@[EMAIL   2007-02-24 18:21:35 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-02-24 11:23:20 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-02-27 22:39:50 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Ed Chauvin IV <edcfour  2007-02-23 20:19:39 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-02-24 23:38:45 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-25 06:10:11 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Ed Chauvin IV <edcfour  2007-02-25 00:57:33 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Klaus Mittag <klaus_mi  2007-02-25 17:29:40 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-25 16:51:08 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Brandon Blackmoor <bbl  2007-02-25 01:16:47 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Ed Chauvin IV <edcfour  2007-02-25 00:57:33 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-02-25 01:32:19 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Ed Chauvin IV <edcfour  2007-02-25 09:04:43 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-02-28 16:52:35 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-02-28 19:55:04 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-28 23:41:26 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 13:46:01 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 22:11:16 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-06 06:50:33 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-06 08:03:58 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-03-06 18:36:05 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-06 21:47:01 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-06 12:37:43 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-03-07 07:25:47 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-07 11:20:17 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-01 13:46:55 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-03-02 03:00:10 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 13:55:27 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 13:04:19 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 21:08:54 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-03-05 18:03:10 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-02 07:46:33 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-02 08:21:02 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-04 13:23:24 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-03-05 00:47:58 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-04 13:47:04 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Indiana Joe <indianajo  2007-03-04 19:48:47 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-06 01:35:43 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-04 20:40:08 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-03-05 17:29:28 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-03-05 20:22:38 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-04 20:43:28 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-03-06 09:25:59 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-03-05 10:00:15 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-03-05 21:43:40 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-05 14:38:32 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-03-05 21:14:02 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-05 12:47:25 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-05 13:02:41 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-05 16:16:34 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-03-06 01:25:04 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-05 14:19:44 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-05 23:41:55 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-03-06 18:30:03 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Gary Johnson <zzjohnsg  2007-03-06 16:44:54 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-06 01:32:53 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Thomas Lindgren <*****  2007-03-06 13:16:35 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-06 04:37:39 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-06 08:08:13 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-06 18:32:26 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-06 13:20:18 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-06 16:09:21 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-03-06 19:10:17 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-06 21:50:28 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-03-07 07:32:50 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-07 06:41:04 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-07 06:41:19 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-03-07 09:32:11 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-07 11:46:32 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-03-07 18:30:22 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-03-08 16:52:47 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-07 11:02:56 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"DougL" <lam  2007-03-07 11:10:37 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-03-07 19:35:16 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-07 11:18:58 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-07 15:08:47 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-03-08 00:44:58 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-07 13:27:26 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"DougL" <lam  2007-03-08 08:26:35 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-02-22 21:19:48 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-02-22 21:50:44 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-02-23 08:41:08 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-02-23 08:47:26 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-23 20:51:34 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-02-23 13:33:03 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-25 06:25:42 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-02-27 22:51:54 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-27 23:40:05 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-02-28 00:36:25 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Beowulf Bolt <abd.al-h  2007-02-28 15:17:19 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-02-25 08:25:06 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-26 20:22:38 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-02-25 09:31:00 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-26 20:30:12 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 13:22:46 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 21:39:48 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-06 04:06:33 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-02-26 12:57:31 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-02-26 13:29:32 
Re: mechanics of surprise
tussock <scrub@[EMAIL   2007-02-28 02:08:22 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-03-02 02:30:36 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-02-27 20:46:51 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-02-28 09:09:39 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-28 19:01:57 
Re: mechanics of surprise
tussock <scrub@[EMAIL   2007-03-03 02:34:02 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-03-02 20:59:02 
Re: mechanics of surprise
tussock <scrub@[EMAIL   2007-03-03 21:47:47 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Ed Chauvin IV <edcfour  2007-03-03 10:39:11 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-03-03 12:12:04 
Re: mechanics of surprise
tussock <scrub@[EMAIL   2007-03-04 16:57:06 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Klaus Mittag <klaus_mi  2007-03-04 11:50:02 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-02-28 06:25:33 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-02-28 09:31:40 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-02-28 19:07:12 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-02-28 11:49:09 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-02-28 12:40:18 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-02-28 12:53:35 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-02-28 21:34:14 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 14:57:00 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-06 19:20:16 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-06 21:58:30 
Re: mechanics of surprise
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-03-06 22:44:05 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-07 06:33:40 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Beowulf Bolt <abd.al-h  2007-03-01 23:57:05 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-02-28 13:55:53 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-02-28 22:22:04 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-03-01 15:18:08 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 16:23:48 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 16:34:39 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 17:55:18 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-03-02 02:47:42 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-03-03 01:12:49 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-02-28 16:43:55 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 06:39:04 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 07:20:33 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 17:58:35 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-03-01 18:46:42 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 19:04:02 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-03-01 19:32:18 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 19:55:33 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-02 06:22:01 
Re: mechanics of surprise
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-03-02 18:16:44 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-02 10:53:20 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-02 11:47:02 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-03-02 11:00:01 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 07:33:32 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 18:22:03 
Re: mechanics of surprise
tussock <scrub@[EMAIL   2007-03-03 02:03:13 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-02 17:26:52 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"DougL" <lam  2007-03-01 09:19:23 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Beowulf Bolt <abd.al-h  2007-03-01 17:30:51 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-01 09:34:58 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-03-01 10:32:57 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 18:36:30 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 11:18:02 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 11:34:21 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 19:49:39 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 11:38:25 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 19:54:15 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-01 12:12:20 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Russell Wallace <russe  2007-03-01 20:49:06 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-02 06:57:28 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-03-02 07:16:04 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-03-02 09:47:20 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"gleichman" <  2007-03-02 11:43:50 
Re: mechanics of surprise
"psychohist" &l  2007-03-03 10:27:44 
Re: mechanics of surprise
Ed Chauvin IV <edcfour  2007-03-03 21:54:48 

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