Re: mechanics of surprise

In article <jg72u25u9gjqu1vnig8f26r7hj3bhdsr1h@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
Erol K. Bayburt  <ErolB1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:19:39 -0600, Ed Chauvin IV <edcfour@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>wrote:

>>Surprise is a hefty weapon and can level the playing field for a
>>weaker foe.  As a GM, you should use it cautiously, typically to make
>>an encounter with a weaker foe more interesting. 

>Well, in some styles of play the GM *can't* "use it cautiously" - the
>GM doesn't have that kind of storytelling control, but instead is
>obligated to play the foes as competently as possible. Which means
>that if surprise is a hefty weapon, the foes will try to exploit it as
>best they can.

Yes.  My player complains endlessly if the foes don't make a
good-faith effort to win.  And we are playing in a system where
Invisibility and Silence are second-level spells so "don't let
yourself be surprised" is very difficult advice to follow.

I think I'd have a lot of problems, myself, with a campaign where
the PCs got to employ surprise but it was never effectively employed
against them--it would feel both unfair and unreal to me, unless
there was a very strong game-world reason why.  

>And as a player it can get unpleasant to always have to play
>characters who are obsessed over surprise; over gaining suprise over
>their opponents and over not being surprised themselves.

In my experience, by the higher levels (I've seen this in both
D&D and Shadowrun) you get a strange play style in which the
PCs are always either setting an ambush or hiding.  They can't
do any normal activities, because if they are themselves ambushed
they'll all die.  And trying to be totally safe from ambush is
incredibly difficult in most systems, unless you stay in your
prepared fortress.

Our long Shadowrun campaign was nearly destroyed by this; it
became apparent to the player that given the enemies the PCs
had made (against whom they couldn't muster an immediately
decisive attack) if those enemies ever caught them flatfooted
it was TPK for sure.  And they couldn't build a strong enough
fortress.  They responded by running away--severing all
contacts with their friends and allies, buying a mobile home
and hitting the road.  They stopped accompli****ng anything
towards their goals.  Eventually they slipped up and the TPK
happened anyway, at which time the GM and I had a long talk
about the game and tried to find ways to rescue it.  I vividly
remember what a horrible feeling of despair came out of a few
sessions of this.  

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]