Re: mechanics of surprise

In article <1172184409.795681.170680@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
psychohist <psychohist@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>Surprise mechanics need not be tied to initiative.  For example, in my
>Eastern Isles mechanics, the primary combat effect of surprise is a
>combat bonus on the first attack (typically +4 to hit on a 2D20
>system).  In addition, I think only the one character initiating
>action would typically benefit from this.

>In group situations, the primary benefit of surprise in my system is
>that the group with tactical surprise would get up to a free round of
>movement, but not combat.  That could still be a big advantage, but
>it's not as overwhelming as a system where the entire group gets a
>free round of combat.

How do you deal with situations like the following?

(1)  My forces set up just outside the cavemouth.  As soon as the foe
steps out of the cave, we fire arrows at him.  We don't intend to move
at all as we have good cover where we are.

(2)  My group and the enemy group are standing face to face, talking.
Negotiations break down; the leader of my group gives a secret
signal, not detected by the enemy, which means "Attack immediately."
(This happened in our last session; the group leader is a telepath
so it's easy for him to signal undetectably.  We ruled it as
not-surprise as the other group may well have sensed that negotiations
were going poorly.)

In #1 I would feel quite perturbed if the unaware foe got to shoot
one of us before we got to shoot him.  I'm not as sure about #2,
but how about this:

(3)  Half of the PCs have been replaced by dopplegangers.  The 
dopplegangers have agreed among themselves in advance that if the
PCs try to open the door to their secret hideout, they'll have
to attack immediately.  The PCs have failed to notice
the dopples and have no idea anything is wrong, and they haven't
yet been able to open the locked door so they are not expecting
attack from that direction.

Would you allow only one of the dopples a bonus to hit on its
first attack?  How would you pick which one?--an initiative roll?

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]