Re: what is it about angels?

In article <12s4al464ts1dcb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
Arthur Boff  <arthur.boff@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>Gary Johnson wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Feb 2007, Mary K. Kuhner wrote:

>>> I think you are mistaken.

>> I'll try to clarify my logic, then. A creature of CR X is supposed to
be 
>> an "appropriate combat" (using up approximately 25% of resources) for 4

>> PCs of level X, because 4 PCs of level X have an EL of X+4, just as 4 
>> creatures of CR X have an EL of X+4.

>Which would surely mean that in a one-on-one combat both characters 
>should be roughly equivalent - the CR X PC and the CR X monster will 
>both probably end up using all their resources, and it'll effectively be 
>a coin toss as to who wins, da?

Yes.  It is not an "appropriate combat" because a series of 50/50 shots
will kill any campaign, but it is an even one.  (Though the higher
the level, and the more peculiar the creatures, the more likely that
it ends up lopsided in each individual instance even if the average
is 50/50.)

I am not at all sure about the statement that 4 CRX is ELX+4.  I think
it's closer to X+3.  But the scaling gets more and more difficult the
further you get from single monsters.

SPOILERS for _Age of Worms_:

Episode 3 of _Worms_ has 30 lizardfolk (and two leaders) which they
discourage the 5th level PCs from tackling directly on the argument that 
it's EL11.  Scuttlebutt on the net is that most PC parties just shrug and
fight this, and they win.  I think my player is about to do this; I'll
re****t back.  I expect he'll win.

Conversely, my GM picked up a module to insert into SCAP which had
harpies in it, CR3, not a big monster against a 9th level party.  There
were 8 of them.  Fortunately my PCs figured this out in time, because
if the harpies get to use their main attack, it's lethal.  (I rolled
out the saves:  yup, out of 8 PCs, no successes.  Not even close.  But 
luckily the situation didn't arise.)

I don't expect a CR11 paladin to be a match for a CR12 angel, because
there is a CR difference, and paladin is a very weak class, and not
well suited to the task.  But I didn't expect things to be quite so
hopelessly one-sided as they were, nor the statement that the creature
would have a good chance against 13 CR11's.  (Admittedly this is
partly because they are offworld, and not all good, so the angel can
reduce the problem by about 50% with one Holy Word.  And really, really
annoy the player, who now has two parties that can't rejoin.  This
is a large part of why we didn't allow that fight.)

I should really study the angel myself, though, and not go on what the
GM said--I'll re****t back when I get a chance.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]