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Gaming > Debate > Re: Difficulty ...
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Re: Difficulty Balance

by Simon Smith <simon_smith_news@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jan 11, 2007 at 07:51 PM

In message <1168538082.988727.225070@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
          "gleichman" <fox1_217@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

> 
> Simon Smith wrote:
> > In a gritty scenario, characters must whack down every weaker foe as
quickly
> > and brutally as possible, in order to buy themselves time to deal with
the
> > deadlier opponents. That /isn't/ noble.
> 
> I think you're falling back into movie mode.
> 
> October 8th, 1918 Cor****al Alvin York of the 328th Infantry led seven
> men in an attack on a German position killing 25 with at least 9 of
> them by his own hand. In this action he accepted the surrender of 128
> men.
> 
> Real life is a brutal as it gets- there was no firing to wound or
> disable, yet here we have all the elements of a hero. Bravery, Skill
> and Nobility (mercy). To this one can add humility due to his after
> action lack of pride in his actions.
> 
> This beats the Long Ranger shooting guns out of people's hand (and not
> taking modifiers for doing so) any day of the week.

Funnily enough, I'm the only player I know who has actually had a
character
steam in, slaughter some foes and then in a bull-like voice demand
surrender
from the remainder. I'm entirely happy with that as a definition of
heroic.
And in a bit you snipped I said "whacking down weaker foes isn't
particularly noble, but I think it's about equally common in the hardest
scenarios /as in heroic ones/". The difference is, in a heroic scenario,
after having killed some, the hero demands surrender from the remainder,
while in a gritty scenario he then goes on to try to slaughter the rest as
well. It's not the butchery that's heroic, it's the later restraint.

Of course, the butchery is a necessary prelude, otherwise how can you show
you are capable of carrying out the threat? Characters who charge in and
immediately demand surrender without killing anyone are trying a bluff;
that's even lower down the violence scale - so 'cinematic' rather than
'heroic'.

-- 
Simon Smith

When emailing me, please use my preferred email address, which is on my
web
site at http://www.simon-smith.org
 




 181 Posts in Topic:
Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-09 10:42:33 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-09 19:22:23 
Re: Difficulty Balance
delrio@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-01-09 21:30:19 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-09 23:13:16 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-10 15:18:23 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 01:39:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 06:16:15 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 14:01:37 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-11 17:42:06 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 21:37:03 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 17:28:20 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 04:20:28 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 21:27:41 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-12 00:06:25 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 17:57:45 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-12 00:39:03 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 18:53:32 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-12 13:57:09 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-12 15:44:11 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 16:48:01 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 16:56:50 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 17:39:50 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 19:51:13 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-09 20:29:35 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-09 20:00:41 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-10 18:16:04 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-10 06:25:19 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-10 06:38:53 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-10 07:05:28 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 07:02:20 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-11 17:44:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-11 20:20:30 
Re: Difficulty Balance
delrio@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-01-12 15:08:29 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-12 19:18:51 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-12 19:46:35 
Re: Difficulty Balance
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh <  2007-01-15 19:05:30 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-15 19:07:56 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Irina Rempt <irina@[EM  2007-01-16 00:06:38 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-16 00:03:29 
Re: Difficulty Balance
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh <  2007-01-16 19:15:02 
Re: Difficulty Balance
delrio@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-01-16 18:42:52 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-17 20:30:03 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-13 15:48:41 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 10:21:24 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 10:27:04 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 11:12:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 11:20:47 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-11 07:11:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 09:50:16 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 08:55:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 09:01:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-11 09:06:02 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 09:28:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 09:54:43 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 13:03:18 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-11 22:10:47 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 17:05:06 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-12 00:56:54 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 19:19:00 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-12 05:17:13 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 22:41:22 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-12 06:05:43 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 06:10:32 
Re: Difficulty Balance
delrio@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-01-12 15:48:30 
Re: Difficulty Balance
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh <  2007-01-13 01:23:59 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 06:46:39 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-12 08:11:40 
Re: Difficulty Balance
cgoodin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2007-01-12 22:32:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 17:16:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Rick Pikul <rwpikul@[E  2007-01-13 17:47:13 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 04:19:10 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Rick Pikul <rwpikul@[E  2007-01-13 17:54:49 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 13:07:20 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-11 13:46:27 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 17:29:34 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 17:37:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 17:56:29 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 17:59:54 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 18:29:12 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 19:03:10 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 18:38:24 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 18:51:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-11 16:54:13 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-12 01:13:43 
Re: Difficulty Balance
sNOmSPAMs@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-01-12 03:47:28 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-11 18:09:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-12 05:28:17 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 20:15:37 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 21:45:38 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 20:46:01 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-12 06:17:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 06:38:44 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 06:57:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-12 09:18:40 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 07:25:05 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 07:46:57 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 13:41:48 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 11:53:46 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-12 21:19:27 
Re: Difficulty Balance
sNOmSPAMs@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-01-13 00:48:02 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-13 01:15:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 20:29:39 
Re: Difficulty Balance
sNOmSPAMs@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-01-13 11:10:15 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 12:39:19 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-01-13 00:07:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 14:05:57 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-12 13:26:47 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 13:46:49 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-12 22:04:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 17:14:41 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 05:03:45 
Re: Difficulty Balance
delrio@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-01-15 03:31:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 15:56:44 
Re: Difficulty Balance
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh <  2007-01-14 01:44:09 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 16:33:46 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 17:20:53 
Re: Difficulty Balance
cgoodin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2007-01-16 17:18:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-13 00:23:18 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 05:06:28 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 16:55:08 
Re: Difficulty Balance
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh <  2007-01-14 01:31:12 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 20:39:17 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 22:22:04 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-12 23:19:09 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 22:36:19 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 05:56:50 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 22:57:25 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-14 00:17:32 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 23:09:58 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-12 22:11:57 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 08:50:41 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 01:42:54 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-13 10:15:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 10:25:30 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 01:47:46 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 01:54:20 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-13 06:45:37 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 09:33:01 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-13 08:24:38 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-13 08:35:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 11:07:48 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 11:42:15 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 14:20:01 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 13:37:36 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 14:07:54 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 14:44:03 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 16:55:03 
Re: Difficulty Balance
George W Harris <gharr  2007-01-14 05:50:44 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-14 11:04:54 
Re: Difficulty Balance
George W Harris <gharr  2007-01-14 13:40:23 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-14 12:58:24 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 15:13:58 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 18:08:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-14 00:41:17 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 20:04:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-14 00:34:56 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-13 16:32:33 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 17:52:57 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 20:06:58 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 21:35:22 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 23:47:35 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 23:37:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-14 11:09:28 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-14 03:40:00 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Rick Pikul <rwpikul@[E  2007-01-19 10:59:27 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-14 03:50:04 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-14 09:41:02 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Gary Johnson <zzjohnsg  2007-01-15 09:08:14 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-14 18:13:50 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-14 18:18:34 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-14 22:32:44 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-14 22:46:42 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-15 00:20:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-15 04:17:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-15 06:32:34 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-15 09:02:46 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-15 13:42:39 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-15 21:49:02 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-15 23:57:56 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-16 00:22:57 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-16 09:52:45 

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