Simon Smith wrote:
> In message <1168528267.068296.23360@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Will in New Haven" <bill.reich@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> >
> > gleichman wrote:
> > > Simon Smith wrote:
<snipped>
>
> > What others have called heroic here is best called "cinematic."
> > Whatsisname didn't use that term but that is what he is talking about.
> > Even in good cinema, some heroism ****nes through but the cinematic
> > style of gaming is not about facing difficulty, it is about looking
> > cool and feeling like a kick-ass.
>
> <snip>
>
> Ah, yes, that's a useful distinction, and one I wasn't making when I
posted.
> Try this, but note that the numbers are qualitative only:
>
> Party operating at Common result
> 150% of capacity TPK
>
> 120% of capacity Gritty tone,
> survival a struggle,
> regular character deaths
>
> 100%-110% of capacity Tone somewhere between gritty and heroic
> survival hard
> occasional character deaths
>
> 90-100% of capacity Lighter tone,
> somewhere between heroic and cinematic
> Survival acheivable
> character deaths rare
>
> 80-90% of capacity Cinematic tone,
> Survival pretty much certain
> Character deaths very rare
>
> under 80% Very light tone
> Becomes increasingly Monty Haul under
50%
I like this set of numbers as a way to evaluate individual situations
but not entire campaigns. I elaborate below.
Those are intersting numbers but I think that the distinction between
"heroic" and "gritty" is less in the difficulty of the challenges and
more in the frequency of the challenges. The distinction you make
between them works very well for a single encoutner but a campaign can
be both or, of course, neither.
If a group of characters is repeatedly faced with extremely difficult
challenges, if the environment in which they operate is full of
death-threats from day to day, with few if any breaks, the campaign is
gritty. Now grittyness, as it were, is a quality that affects the
atmosphere of a campaign and there can be mildly gritty campaigns as
well as intensely gritty campaigns. A gritty campaign wears characters
down. If the climactic struggle or struggles of the campaign are
extremely challenging, the campaign can also be heroic, although very
gritty campaigns are already so challenging that the heroic moments may
not stand out. Characters in a gritty campaign will often be very
hard-pressed to meet heroic challenges when they do come. I think that
Mary, the original poster in the parent thread to this one, the one
about peeves, objects to the wearing-down quality of a gritty campaign,
as it is not fun to play. I tend to agree.
If the day to day challenges are less severe or if the characters spend
a great deal of time in activities that don't involve challenges but
the climactic struggle or struggles of the campaign are extremely
challenging, the campaign is also, in my opinion, heroic. This is true
even though the day to day atmosphere is much ligher. I think players
mind gritty a lot more than they do heroic. The campaigns I run tend to
be mildly gritty to non-gritty but they usually have some, often only
one, extremely challenging situations.
>
>
> This illustrates where /I/ think heroic tone fits into the gaming
spectrum.
> So I'd have to modify my original post and admit that I'm usually
> running a cinematic game.
Nothing wrong with that at all.
>
> Is this a less contentious position, or do you still have issues with
it?
Only that I think it is better applied, as a mathematical model, to
individual situations and not whole campaigns.
>
> PS, sorry, who's Whatisname?
Better to leave that be.
Will in New Haven
--
>
> --
> Simon Smith
>
> When emailing me, please use my preferred email address, which is on my
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