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Gaming > Debate > Re: Difficulty ...
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Re: Difficulty Balance

by "Will in New Haven" <bill.reich@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jan 10, 2007 at 06:38 AM

Del Rio wrote:
> In article <eo0q1f$48p$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
> Mary K. Kuhner <mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >
> >I have, in the last ten years, heard a lot of complaints about
> >too-hard scenarios.  I have heard an *enormous* number of complaints
> >about too-hard scenarios coupled with weak GM play or outright
> >fudging.  I don't think I've heard anyone complain that their
> >GM is giving them a consistent diet of encounters which, although
> >played accurately, are simply too weak to threaten the PCs.
> >
> >Are we tying ourselves in knots to avoid a problem that really isn't
> >all that common, and causing ourselves a lot of grief in the process?
>
> Maybe it's like the video game problem, where the hardcore
> gamer market drives the difficulty level of games, such that a
> "casual" gamer like me can't even play a lot of the more
> popular games?  You author a D&D module and say that it's for a
> certain level of characters, but your playtest group is a bunch
> who live, breathe and **** D&D, and they chew through your
> "balanced" foe groups like cold pizza.  So you crank up the
> difficulty level until your all-volunteer group of hardcore
> nutjobs is satisfied that it presents a reasonable challenge.
> A bunch of equally hardcore D&D wanks at WoTC vetts your work,
> and it goes on the market as-is, resulting in the characters of
> 'normal' people all over the globe getting slaughtered in
> heaps.  ;-)

Boy that hits the mark. I have been involved in playtesting groups for
RPG and for wargames many times and it is very difficult to get
playtesters who recognize that most players don't want the kind of
challenges that these guys live for.

In hundreds of sessions over thousands of hours, I don't think there
was a single suggestion from the players that would have led to making
the game EASIER when we were playtesting a scenario. When playtesting a
system, it is entirely different. Playtesters will complain about game
mechanics that disadvantage the players. .

Will in New Haven

--


>
> --
> "I know I promised, Lord, never again. But I also know
>    that YOU know what a weak-willed person I am."
 




 181 Posts in Topic:
Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-09 10:42:33 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-09 19:22:23 
Re: Difficulty Balance
delrio@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-01-09 21:30:19 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-09 23:13:16 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-10 15:18:23 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 01:39:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 06:16:15 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 14:01:37 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-11 17:42:06 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 21:37:03 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 17:28:20 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 04:20:28 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 21:27:41 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-12 00:06:25 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 17:57:45 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-12 00:39:03 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 18:53:32 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-12 13:57:09 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-12 15:44:11 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 16:48:01 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 16:56:50 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 17:39:50 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-11 19:51:13 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-09 20:29:35 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-09 20:00:41 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-10 18:16:04 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-10 06:25:19 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-10 06:38:53 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-10 07:05:28 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 07:02:20 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-11 17:44:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-11 20:20:30 
Re: Difficulty Balance
delrio@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-01-12 15:08:29 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-12 19:18:51 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-12 19:46:35 
Re: Difficulty Balance
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh <  2007-01-15 19:05:30 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-15 19:07:56 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Irina Rempt <irina@[EM  2007-01-16 00:06:38 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-16 00:03:29 
Re: Difficulty Balance
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh <  2007-01-16 19:15:02 
Re: Difficulty Balance
delrio@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-01-16 18:42:52 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-17 20:30:03 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Simon Smith <simon_smi  2007-01-13 15:48:41 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 10:21:24 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 10:27:04 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 11:12:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 11:20:47 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-11 07:11:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 09:50:16 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 08:55:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 09:01:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-11 09:06:02 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 09:28:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 09:54:43 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 13:03:18 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-11 22:10:47 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 17:05:06 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-12 00:56:54 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 19:19:00 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-12 05:17:13 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 22:41:22 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-12 06:05:43 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 06:10:32 
Re: Difficulty Balance
delrio@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-01-12 15:48:30 
Re: Difficulty Balance
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh <  2007-01-13 01:23:59 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 06:46:39 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-12 08:11:40 
Re: Difficulty Balance
cgoodin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2007-01-12 22:32:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 17:16:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Rick Pikul <rwpikul@[E  2007-01-13 17:47:13 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 04:19:10 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Rick Pikul <rwpikul@[E  2007-01-13 17:54:49 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 13:07:20 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-11 13:46:27 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 17:29:34 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 17:37:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 17:56:29 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 17:59:54 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 18:29:12 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 19:03:10 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 18:38:24 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 18:51:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-11 16:54:13 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-12 01:13:43 
Re: Difficulty Balance
sNOmSPAMs@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-01-12 03:47:28 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-11 18:09:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-12 05:28:17 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 20:15:37 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-11 21:45:38 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-11 20:46:01 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-12 06:17:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 06:38:44 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 06:57:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-12 09:18:40 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 07:25:05 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 07:46:57 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 13:41:48 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 11:53:46 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-12 21:19:27 
Re: Difficulty Balance
sNOmSPAMs@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-01-13 00:48:02 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-13 01:15:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 20:29:39 
Re: Difficulty Balance
sNOmSPAMs@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-01-13 11:10:15 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 12:39:19 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Neelakantan Krishnaswami   2007-01-13 00:07:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 14:05:57 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-12 13:26:47 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 13:46:49 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-12 22:04:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 17:14:41 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 05:03:45 
Re: Difficulty Balance
delrio@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-01-15 03:31:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 15:56:44 
Re: Difficulty Balance
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh <  2007-01-14 01:44:09 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 16:33:46 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-12 17:20:53 
Re: Difficulty Balance
cgoodin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2007-01-16 17:18:07 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-13 00:23:18 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 05:06:28 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 16:55:08 
Re: Difficulty Balance
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh <  2007-01-14 01:31:12 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 20:39:17 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 22:22:04 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-12 23:19:09 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 22:36:19 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Peter Knutsen <peter@[  2007-01-13 05:56:50 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 22:57:25 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-14 00:17:32 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-12 23:09:58 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-12 22:11:57 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 08:50:41 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 01:42:54 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Erol K. Bayburt <ErolB  2007-01-13 10:15:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 10:25:30 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 01:47:46 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 01:54:20 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-13 06:45:37 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 09:33:01 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-13 08:24:38 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-13 08:35:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-13 11:07:48 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 11:42:15 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 14:20:01 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 13:37:36 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 14:07:54 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 14:44:03 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 16:55:03 
Re: Difficulty Balance
George W Harris <gharr  2007-01-14 05:50:44 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-14 11:04:54 
Re: Difficulty Balance
George W Harris <gharr  2007-01-14 13:40:23 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-14 12:58:24 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 15:13:58 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 18:08:21 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-14 00:41:17 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 20:04:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
mkkuhner@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2007-01-14 00:34:56 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-13 16:32:33 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 17:52:57 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 20:06:58 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 21:35:22 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-13 23:47:35 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-13 23:37:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-14 11:09:28 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-14 03:40:00 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Rick Pikul <rwpikul@[E  2007-01-19 10:59:27 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-14 03:50:04 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-14 09:41:02 
Re: Difficulty Balance
Gary Johnson <zzjohnsg  2007-01-15 09:08:14 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-14 18:13:50 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-14 18:18:34 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-14 22:32:44 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-14 22:46:42 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-15 00:20:31 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-15 04:17:26 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"Will in New Haven&q  2007-01-15 06:32:34 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-15 09:02:46 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"psychohist" &l  2007-01-15 13:42:39 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-15 21:49:02 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-15 23:57:56 
Re: Difficulty Balance
John Morrow <morrow@[E  2007-01-16 00:22:57 
Re: Difficulty Balance
"gleichman" <  2007-01-16 09:52:45 

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