Re: XieXie Master -- a recommendation

On Mar 8, 3:52 am, mikeh...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
> On Mar 7, 10:50 pm, mark <mschr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > Watanabe never said that. I read the translated comments of Watanabe.
Watanabe said "The variations are long, but a strong player will spot this
repeat attack theme immediately. In this position, almost anything is good
as long as White doesn't give Black a knight. The computer, on the other
hand, > has to consider all the possibilities over a wide range, which
might make it difficult for it to focus on the key point and probe it
deeply. In this respect, human experience still seems to be superior."
>
> interesting.  i only have the wiki article to go by, and since u're
> basically saying the wiki article is basically totally wrong, i'll
> have to take your word for it.

I also gave my sources. My sources are public records.

> > That's not a quote from Watanabe. Watanabe said, "they are getting to
be a match for professionals" not top pro level.
>
> apparently another false claim from wiki.  thx.

I posted the mistakes on wikipedia. You can see my statements on the
discussion page. They did not fix it. I could fix it myself. I would
need to figure out how. Then they would give me an argument. I didn't
bother.

> > The wikipedia article made another mistake. The article says the
computer has an "awesome endgame ability". Watanabe said the opposite "I
learned from this game is that endgame technique apart from tsumi is still
a challenge for the computer."
>
> looks like they hit the trifecta!  lol.
>
> > This wikipedia paragraph in the shogi article exaggerates the strength
of computer shogi.
>
> curious, what kinda hardware was the program running on?

An Intel Xeon X5355 2.66GHz 8M FSB1333 FC-LGA6 Clovertown x2 (8core).
Sounds like an octal. See  lists.topica.com/lists/shogi/read/
message.html?sort=t&mid=812678502&start=1931

> > The Bonanza Watanabe game was a mismatch. Before you play a top
professional you should be qualified by winning a game against a weak
professional. No computer has ever won against any professional. The best
way to see how strong the computer is by playing in human
> > tournaments. Until the computer beats a professional we can not say
the computer has reached professional level.
>
> the wiki article said the japanese shogi association (or whatever it's
> called), put out a memo strongly encouraging shogi pros to never play
> against programs.  is this true/false?  also, what is the rating of
> the world's #1 shogi player?  do they use the elo system as well?  and
> what is the rating of a "weak professional?"  is it the case that
> bonanza cant even beat the "weakest professional that exists?"

Yes its true. The Nihon shogi renmei (NSR) prohibits professional
players from playing a computer. They are paranoid. They are trying to
stop the inevitable, a computer beating the #1 professional. See
lists.topica.com/lists/shogi/read/message.html?
mid=811575208&sort=d&start=1018

Shogi has 2 professional ratings a dan kyu rating and an elo rating.
The world's #1 Habu is a 9 dan with a rating of 3239. See
members3.jcom.home.ne.jp/ta-higu/shogi/pro-rating.html
The weakest professional is 4 dan professional. I don't know the elo
rating of the weak professional.

The #1 Habu rated Bonanza in the Bonanza Watanabe game at 2 dan
shoreikai in his article in Nikkei Newspaper evening edition on March
26 2007. A 2 dan shoreikai is a player in training to be a
professional. It is less than a 4 dan professional. If a player in
training p***** his training he is promoted to a 4 dan professional.
So Habu rates bonanza less than a professional.

Last year the NSR announced there would be another computer vs top
professional. The computer will be the winner of last year's CSA
tournament, YSS. I have not heard when it will be, I guess in April.
The computer will lose again and it will prove nothing. The computer
should play a player of equal strength a 2 or 3 dan shoreikai.