Re: XieXie Master -- a recommendation

On Mar 5, 12:09=A0am, mark <mschr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> A "tournament draw" is a tournament where the score is the same for the
2 =
players. For example in tournament of 20 games each side wins 3 games,
loses=
 3 games and the rest are draws.

well, in chess a mega-GM wont be able to score a tourney draw provided
the match is of sufficiently long in length.  he'll blunder
eventually.  but he'll get close, provided he trains to become a super
draw-master.

> I think that in chess the computer is too strong for the human to draw a
t=
ournament. The highest rating ever for a human is under 2900. The rating
for=
 the computer is 3100.

rybka is certainly < 3100 at 120/40 provided his opponent uses a
custom opening book (which he will if such a comp-comp match
occurred).  the opening book is the great equalizer.  rybka is only
3100 when shallow/commercial books are used.  this isnt surprising as
a shallow books allows the engine to show its true colors.

> Look at kramnik's loss in 2006 to fritz as an example of why the
computer =
is too strong. Fritz is 100 points less than the strongest program. Fritz
ra=
n on less than the best computer for 2006. The tournament rules were
> changed to help the world champion. The world champion still lost in
2006.=


1.  discounting his oversight of the mate-in-1, the final score
would've likely been 3.5-2.5.  given the match was only 6 games long,
i'd hardly say that was a conclusive result.
2.  kramnik had no incentive to either win nor play for the draw.  he
was guaranteed the prize money regardless of the outcome.
3.  i contend if kramnik was offered big money if he could simply draw
a match against fritz, and he prepared for this match as if it were
the (human) world champion****p, he'd be able to do it.

>I think that today in a fair tournament the world champion would lose
most =
of the games and draw maybe 10 percent of the games.

first of all, are u talking about a tournament (i.e. round-robin
format), or a match (e.g. human vs. computer)?  i'll presume u mean
the latter.  what are the time controls?  if they're 120/40, no way.

> There have been strides in shogi but small ones. We can see the computer
i=
s still far because the computer has never beaten even a beginner shogi
prof=
essional player. The obstacle to making big progress is the size of the
effo=
rt. A bigger effort would have more computer tournaments, automated
program =
testing and a shogi programmer's forum. I think the lack of these things
wil=
l slow progress. I see a computer beating the #1 in 2027.

check out the wiki article on shogi and u'll see u're wrong.  a
computer will beat the world's #1 way before 2027.  wouldnt be
surprised if it happens by 2010.

> Strongly solved means the program can play the current position of the
gam=
e and produce the position's theoretic result even if previous moves were
mi=
stakes. This excludes game positions that can not be reached from the >
star=
t position. Being all games start from one of the 3 move ballots and the
com=
puter will solve all 3 move ballots. Then chinook can produce the games
theo=
retic result from any position resulting from the games starting
>position. =
Although Chinook will not find the fastest win or the slowest draw or
loss. =
So Schaeffer will strongly solve checkers.

schaeffer doesnt say what u claim he says in this article:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/jul07/5379

> It seems we have a lot of disagreements. I wanted to see if there is a
sit=
uation where we agree. Happily there is.

heh.

btw, i've done tests of neuchess playing itself.  red's move are
evaluated to at least 17-ply for every move, while the black side only
gets up to 14-ply.  this setup simulates an overclocked octal system
running neuchess against a dual-core system at time controls of 80min/
30s per side.  i choose the opening by which black selects against
red's opening selection.  this occurs for the first 10 moves or so.
after that, i let the engine play itself.  so far every game has ended
in a draw.  this is why i believe Xu can do the same regardless of how
powerful the hardware is that neuchess is running on.