<ttk5079@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:5b636016-0faf-430a-a753-94e3f98b78db@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
May 15, 8:06 am, "Chess One" <OneCh...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> <jkh...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
> news:a81371eb-4be0-4468-9dcd-affd23852beb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Alekhine's Parrot" (that quacking fowl Phil Innes) writes at the
> _Chessville Weekly_:
>
> "Coming up later this Year – Strongest ever US Tournament.
>
> "September 19th to 28th sees a [so far] Category 15 tournament on US
> soil in the 10 player SPICE CUP. Seven of the 10 invitees have
> already signed up, and I understand average Elo is currently 2600."
>
> Question: Is it really plausible to claim that this tournament is/will
> be stronger than New York 1927, or the 1st and 2nd Piatigorsky Cups?
> ("Highest category" would be correct, but that's not what he wrote.)
>
> ---
>
> Im****tant News!
>
> John Hillery thinks that any group of 10 US Players circa 1927
> //averaged//
> 2600 ratings. :)))))))
That is not what he is saying, Phil.
**What is he saying Taylor?
By "US tournament," he clearly
means "a chess tournament played on US soil," and not "a tournament
limited to US citizens."
**I see. Not to soil the citizens? And this is clear? Well... let him
protest it then. I think the context I provided was sufficiently clear,
and
not some Kasparov v Anand affair in the 2 towers.
The three events he refers to: New York 1927,
and the two Piatigorsky Cups (Los Angeles 1963 and Santa Monica 1966),
had only one or two American players each, out of six to 10 total
contestants.
**I see what you say he sees.
> [quite apart from the fact that no ratings existed, even as retrofitted
> numbers against other players in the world, that is some might claim!]
>
> Sometimes I don't know where his talents begin - somewhere on the Yellow
> Brick Road? Anyway, now we know what the JKH definition of 'plausible'
is.
> It is indeed possible that he thinks 1927 players could average 2600,
and
> that is enough to write into these newsgroups, with disparaging comments
> like a newbie or a follower of clan-Murray.
>
> As a journalist, surely John Hillery will want to substatiate his point
by
> mentioning even one fact; for example, a list of 10 players he proposes
to
> average 2600 from 1927, would seem to me to be a minimum proposition on
> his
> part in order to be plausible.
Here are the contestants at New York 1927, with their 5-year peak
ratings as given by Dr. Elo in his book:
Capablanca: 2725
Alekhine: 2690
Nimzovitch: 2615
Vidmar: 2600
Spielmann: 2560
Marshall: 2570
** The famous retrospective analysis of ratings! Including non US players!
By golly! If he had protested the same himself, then the hair he splits
would be, en claire, non? Mais non, simple le *****, ensemble.
**My list of participants are all US citisens, and actually as strong as
these players, without regression analysis.
That's an average of 2627, which would ****ge it just into Category
16 (Elo 2626-2650). Probably a pretty reasonable estimate, perhaps a
mite high -- with the exception of the oldest player, Marshall, these
masters were all at or near their time of peak performance. So it's
quite plausible to suggest that New York 1927 might be the strongest
tournament ever held on US soil. It certainly was the the strongest up
to that time.
**I see my error. Its like talking of America and having Canadians and
Mexicans object that they also live on the continent now named America.
Checking the list of "the world's strongest tournaments" in Fox &
James' "The Even More Complete Chess Addict" (Faber and Faber, 1993),
we do indeed find NY 1927, and the two Piatigorsky Cups, given as the
strongest American events, all at an estimated Category 15
(2601-2625).
**Mit auslander!
If this Spice Cup tournament surp***** them, it will be quite a
prestigious event.
**Yes.
I hope Mr. Hillery and the CJA will wake up to it too, though it was
80-some
years ago since any regressed analysis of player strength could be
compared,
something is happening here which should not cause caustic commentary, but
some applause, no? Especially since the players are US ones. From the
list:-
Capablanca: 2725
Alekhine: 2690
Nimzovitch: 2615
Vidmar: 2600
Spielmann: 2560
Marshall: 2570
Was only Marshall a US citizen at the time?
Phil Innes
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