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Gaming > Computer Chess miscellaneous topics > Re: ****rov's S...
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Re: ****rov's Sad Saga

by "Chess One" <OneChess@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Apr 29, 2008 at 09:22 AM

"David Kane" <davidekane@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:Od6dnQFokeb-XIvVnZ2dnUVZ_quhnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "help bot" <nomorechess@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>
news:9d0ee65b-2e07-4502-aab2-40f88e5ea4c4@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>  Mr. Kane's point was that (he says) the Soviets'
>> *routine practice* was to deny such emigration
>> requests as those by family members of defector
>> Victor Kortchnoi.  Now, while I don't know about
>> such things, I do know that Mr. Parr studiously
>> avoided addressing that issue, instead doing
>> another of his ad hominem dances, with both feet
>> flying this way and that.  It must be concluded then
>> that Mr. Kane struck a nerve.
>>
>
> The bigger point really was that no rational person
> could expect a chessplayer to influence the
> emigration policies of the Soviet government.

No rational person would credit any objective sense whatever to Soviet 
Government.

   We wanted the best, but it turned out as always.
        - Viktor Chernomyrdin,
        - Russian prime minister, 1992-1998.

But David Kane might appreciate the particular sensitivity displayed by
all 
totalitarian regimes to the // appearance // of things, in
contradistinction 
to the difficulty of re****ting what actually goes on in closed societies, 
which is to contrast the appearance with the practice. If Mr. Parr's 
commentary related to either individual pressure put on chess players, or
to 
other individuals whose intelligence and ability was valued by the Soviet 
State, then his is /not/ an exceptional point of view.

In chess one would only have to read Boris Gulko's testimony to understand

that specifically; not only was the Russian champion duffed-up by KGB but 
his wife was also beaten.

It is getting that news out of the country which is the difficult bit -
not 
just the anecdote, but records establi****ng its extent and probity.

Therefore while it is unusual to have then found such samizdat in the
West, 
almost all such records as Gulko's, each made independently of each other,

and necessarily without knowledge of each other; these records all accord 
with each other.

I think to perhaps innocently blame the re****ter for inventiveness, or
some 
such thing, is an attitude that is relieved by knowledge after even a
little 
study.

> The Evans and Parrs of this world are simply
> not capable of dealing with facts which get
> in the way of their simplistic stories.

    JUST ANOTHER MASSACRE

The stories are simple. They are often brutal, so brutal that it is hard
to 
believe that, for example, even in the post-Soviet era one's own head of 
state will appear on camera smiling and shaking hands with the
perpetrators 
of repression, and make 'simplistic' statements expressing their feelings 
they could 'do business' with them.

    On February 5, 2000, the mass murder of civilians took place during a 
pass****t inspection by sub-units of the Ministry of Defence and the
Ministry 
of the Interior of the Russian Federation in the village of Novye Aldy, 
Zavodskoi District, Grozny. This was re****ted by;

    - T. A. Murdalov
    - Investigator for Especially Im****tant Matters,
    - Office of the North Caucasus Prosecutor General of the Russian 
Federation.

Those refer to OMON units. The issue was not further investigated because
of 
jurisdictional 'problems' of troops from Petersburg and Ryazan, and in
2002 
"it came quietly to rest." says Andrew Meier, who continued his re****t in 
Black Earth with...

    ...Not long after the dead in Aldy were reburied for the final time, 
Yuri Dyomin, Russia's chief military prosecutor, told an audience of
Western 
human rights advocates in Moscow that he regretted "the time I have
wasted" 
investigating re****ts of abuses "based on disinformation." He went on to 
accuse Chechen refugees of spreading // skazki //, fairy tales.

This ended the affair for catch-phrase Western apologists of the Regime in

the post-Soviet era, since it was just another [unexplained] massacre, 
despite contravening Article 3 of the Geneva Convention, on internal 
conflicts.

And that Mr. Kane, I suggest to you is <emphasis> //post//  Soviet era. 
Those who re****ted things even earlier gained less attention in the West, 
since for many people, such behaviors by a state were literally 
'unbelievable.'

Phil Innes
 




 62 Posts in Topic:
Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-26 15:28:25 
A Strange Ploy
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-26 18:37:51 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-27 19:15:36 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-28 07:08:59 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
=?Windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen  2008-04-28 19:10:31 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
ttk5079@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-28 08:08:38 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
ttk5079@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-28 11:54:05 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R  2008-04-29 17:15:08 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"Chess One" <  2008-04-29 13:31:12 
Yet another strange ploy
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-28 15:04:45 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-28 19:03:29 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-28 19:10:44 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R  2008-04-29 17:07:17 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-28 19:55:29 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"David Kane" &l  2008-04-28 23:32:56 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"Chess One" <  2008-04-29 09:22:03 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-28 22:36:36 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"David Kane" &l  2008-04-28 23:46:30 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-29 00:09:03 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
ttk5079@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-29 05:27:41 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-29 07:16:19 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"David Kane" &l  2008-04-29 08:36:02 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"Chess One" <  2008-04-29 16:52:25 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-29 08:18:04 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
samsloan <samhsloan@[E  2008-04-29 09:12:17 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
ttk5079@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-29 09:45:29 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-29 14:59:03 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-29 17:31:15 
Another Silly Ploy
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-29 18:44:26 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-29 20:48:06 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R  2008-04-30 11:22:05 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-29 23:39:09 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"Chess One" <  2008-04-30 07:40:17 
Re: Another Silly Ploy
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-30 09:41:14 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-30 04:04:09 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-30 06:26:52 
Re: Another Silly Ploy
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-30 13:13:00 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-30 13:54:55 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"Chess One" <  2008-04-30 17:28:34 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-30 16:19:09 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-30 16:38:43 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-04-30 17:10:52 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"David Kane" &l  2008-04-30 19:32:28 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"Chess One" <  2008-05-01 08:22:00 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-04-30 20:20:13 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-05-01 03:44:02 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"David Kane" &l  2008-05-01 08:43:24 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-05-01 05:52:20 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R  2008-05-01 17:16:45 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
ttk5079@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-01 07:29:01 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-05-01 13:57:22 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-05-01 14:29:34 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R  2008-05-02 00:26:24 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-05-01 14:34:46 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-05-01 19:03:20 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"David Kane" &l  2008-05-01 21:11:22 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-05-01 20:28:27 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-05-04 22:56:02 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R  2008-05-05 13:38:15 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
"parrthenon@[EMAIL P  2008-05-05 06:33:25 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_R  2008-05-05 16:23:44 
Re: Shirov's Sad Saga
help bot <nomorechess@  2008-05-05 14:18:55 

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tan12V112 Sat Jul 26 3:53:24 CDT 2008.