Re: Help Bot Advice adopted.

Peter Osterlund wrote:
> Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
> 
>> Sanny wrote:
>>
>>> That game was played by EASY level. Heres a game by Advance Level
>>> where Zebediah gave lots of sacrifices and win the game in just 34
>>> moves.
>>>
>>> In this game Zebediah was a knight ahead but later sacrificed its
>>> knight to bring a quick end.

>> You mean that Getclub gifted him a knight and then played like a
>> patzer. This play is basically insane. There is something wrong with
>> either the evaluation function or the search algorithm.
> 
> I think the quiescence search is either not implemented at all or
> somehow broken.

My instinct too. Some moves are otherwise inexplicable.

> Just for fun, I played a game between GetClub (running
> on a 2.4GHz Core2 CPU) and my mobile phone (I think it has a 400MHz
> ARM CPU). I expected my phone to be tactically outplayed, but the
> exact opposite happened. Here is the game:

Looking at Shredders computer analysis it is clear that the mobile phone 
always had a deeper effective search than GetClub.
About what nominal rating is Glofiish chess?
> 
> [White "GetClub beginner level 10-20s/move"]
> [Black "Glofiish X800, 15s/move"]
> [Result "0-1"]

Yippee! Header data that will im****t into a CB chess engine..
> 
> 1. Nc3 d5 2. d4 Nf6 3. Bf4 e6 4. g3 Bb4 5. Bg2 Ne4 6. Bxe4 dxe4 

You have to wonder why it played BxN - cramping your own position is not 
usually a good idea. I wonder if it thought 7. Nxe4 was possible (ie did 
not see that the N was pinned in calculating the exchange)

Something harmless to continue developing like Bd2 would have been fine.

>7. e3 g5 8. Be5
> O-O 9. g4 Nc6 10. Bg3 e5

GetClub is steadily outplayed by an engine that sees deeper here.

10. a3 would be a better continuation. The line played helps black.

> 11. d5 Ne7 12. Bxe5 Nxd5 13. Qe2 Re8

We have to wonder why it thought 13. Qe2 was a good idea. It isn't.
h3,h4,a3,Kf1 would all be better (the position is already lost)

> 14. f4 exf3

ANother helpmate move. Not quite terminal but it greatly assists black.
I think a3 is obviously best with Bd4 or even O-O-O plausible.

> 15. Nxf3 Bxc3+ 16. bxc3 Bxg4 17. Bd4 c5 

17. c4 looks better to me.

>18. Bxc5 Nf4 19. Qf1 Qd5 

Qd2 is better

>20. Nxg5 Ng2+
> 21. Kf2 Qxc5 22. Kxg2 Qxg5 23. h4 Bf3+ 

OK. This position needs careful examination. The only viable move here 
is Rg1 and I would expect most engines to find it. Anything else leads 
inexorably to a mate. h4 is a mate in 10.

Interestingly this particular position produces one of the widest 
spectrums of mate detected cutoffs I have seen from Shredder. Does 
anyone know how to interpret them?
namely at 18 ply overnight infinite analysis
Rg1 -11.4
Qg1 -#211
e4  -#201
Qc1, Re1 -#177
h4  -#176
h3,Qd3 -#175
Qf4 -#172
Qe1, Qf2, Qe2 -#150
Qf3 -#149
(all the others are resolved to very quick mates)

NB it is odd that h4 stays at -#176 at 18 ply although after playing 
"h4" explicitly the engine quickly finds the mate in 10.

> 24. Kf2 Qxe3+ 25. Kg3 Bc6+ 26. Kh2 Qe5+
> 27. Kh3 Qe6+ 28. Kg3 Qd6+ 0-1

I presume here that beginner level resigned when the mate came within 
its event horizon (which seems surprisingly shallow).
> 
> I guess that beginner level isn't intentionally making bad moves,
> therefore my guess is a broken quiescence search.

I am not sure. It is hard to decide what it thinks it is doing.

> Sanny <softtanks@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
> 
>>>> 6. e2-e4{104} Nf6-e4{1978}
>>> And now the final coup de grace. Suicide chess anyone ???

>> No it gives 2 points for killing 2 Center pawns and other 1 point for
>> white King Comming out unprotected. and Look at White position its
>> none of the pieces is developed.

Sanny what is the granularity of your evaluation function? You keep 
talking about integral numbers of pawns as if that is the finest division.
> 
> Why a whole point for the unprotected king? Wouldn't a smaller value,
> like 0.25 be better?

That is probably about right. Unless there is a forcing mate sequence - 
some tricks for quickly breaking open a castled king rely on rook 
sacrifice followed by a forcing sequence of checks to mate.

Regards,
Martin Brown
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