Re: What does 1D rebid 2C show?

On May 12, 9:53=A0am, henrysun...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
> On May 12, 9:33 am, OldPalooka <ashut...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > On May 11, 1:33 pm, Stig Holmquist <stigfjor...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > Consider opening 1 D and partner responds 1 S what do I need to
rebid
> > > 2 C ? =A0Would =A0 x -xx -AJxxx- KQxxx be enough or must I have a
bett=
er
> > > hand? This hand meets the count of 20(22) but not my count of 15.
>
> > > Stig Holmquist
>
> > Sorry, how does this not get to your count of 15? =A0Aren't there 3
long=

> > suit points and 10 working HCP and 2 QT? =A0If not, then I must have
> > missed something about lsp.
>
> > =3D=3D Bill Shutts
>
> In Stig's diatribe against Roth, Rubens, Modern Bridge Bidding
> Complete, and pretty much anything that fails to bow at the altar of
> quick tricks as the primary mode of hand evaluation, he writes the
> following:
>
> (Note that what follows is a quotation:)
>
> Yes, you focused on the most glaring shortcoming of short suit counts.
> The primary goal of bidding is to locate an 8-fit in a mjor suit. Thus
> I can see no value in shortness in the majors. If anything it is a
> deficit and should not be used to add value to a hand. I would go as
> far as saying count no length points for minor suits for opening bids.
> Depend solely on HCPs when opening a minor suit bid. Your HCP is the
> only asset you have. E.g. holding 5-5 in the minors would today =A0add 2
> points to the HCP count but seems to be an overvaluation.
>
> Stig
>
> **************
>
> So, if Stig is being honest and consistent, his example hand
>
> x
> xx
> AJxxx
> KQxxx
>
> comes to 10 hcps + 2 quick tricks =3D 12 points. =A0Moreover, since he
> requires 15 stig points to open but does not add for major suit
> shortness, it is clear that this hand evaluates to the same 12 points;
>
> VOID
> VOID
> AJT9876
> KQT987
>
> and it to is only a 12 point hand. =A0Therefore, it could even be
> changed to
>
> VOID
> VOID
> AJT9
> AQJT98765
>
> and it would only be worth 12 hcps plus 2 and a half quick tricks =3D 14
> points - a full point below Stig's 15 point minimum (and maybe the 9
> card club suit means that the AQ is really only worth 1 quick trick,
> in which case the hand evaluates to 13.5 points only).
>
> /disable sarcasm/
>
> Stig has been on a fairly long quest, seeking enlightenment as to why
> modern day teachers (that is, anyone after Goren), chooses not to use
> quick tricks as a part of hand evaluation. =A0He appears to sup****t
> Klinger, who upgraded Bergen's rule of 20 to his own rule of 22 (HCPs
> + length points + quick tricks), and a few of the old masters, but
> peasants (like Roth, Rubens, Kantar - palookas all) who rely on points
> over quick tricks are beneath his contempt.
>
> He has not received much enlightenment from this group, but he does
> apparently have an article waiting to be published in the ACBL
> bulletin on the demise of honor tricks as a means of hand evaluation.
>
> Henrysun909

Ahh, I knew I had missed something fundamental.  Long cards in minor
suits don't take tricks, everyone should know that.

But all seriousness aside, I side with Martin Ambuhl on this issue.
Even though I like to play something close to Edgar's methods, and
note he would open it according to 4C's, I prefer that 1m show a
better hand.

 =3D=3D Bill Shutts