"OldPalooka" <ashutts1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:ada78074-e027-4bfb-aeb2-5bf20f211be6@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Apr 30, 12:48 pm, "raija d" <musti...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> "Adam Beneschan" <a...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>
>> news:55a25eac-aedc-426e-80a5-1d8417840ca4@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Apr 30, 10:18 am, henrysun...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>> >> On Apr 30, 9:13 am, chas...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>>
>> >> > Could anyone point me to a website containg detailed sayc system
>> >> > notes.
>> >> > Or maybe the definitive book, if there is one.
>> >> > I have some of the basic summaries but none of these are very
>> >> > detailed
>> >> > Thanks
>> >> > Chas
>> >> > England
>>
>> >> You might want to check out:
>>
>> >> Standard Bidding With Sayc (Paperback) by Ned Downey (Author), Ellen
>> >> Pomer (Author)
>>
>> >> It is available at Amazon for $13 (plus whatever ****pping and
handling
>> >> is involved).
>>
>> >> I've not read the book, but to my knowledge it is the only book
length
>> >> treatment of the system.
>>
>> > I haven't read the book either, but just based on what you say, if
>> > it's a book-length treatment that costs $13, it's probably not
>> > strictly SAYC. Which means it recommends or discusses some other
>> > treatments/conventions that aren't part of the SAYC system. OK, I'm
>> > just guessing, but I'm rather suspicious.
>>
>> > That isn't a problem if your goal is to adopt a playable bidding
>> > system. But depending on how clear the book is, it could be
confusing
>> > if it leads someone to believe that something is "part of SAYC"
>> > because the book says so, but it isn't, and then they sit down to
play
>> > online with someone who says they're playing SAYC and they assume a
>> > certain bid means a certain thing because the book says so but their
>> > SAYC partner hasn't read the book and then they have a disastrous
>> > misunderstanding.
>>
>> > So here I am leveling criticism at a book I haven't read---probably a
>> > skill I learned in high school, after writing several papers about
>> > books I never bothered to open---but anyone who actually has read the
>> > book, please feel free to tell my I'm wrong.
>>
>> > -- Adam
>>
>> Well, I haven't read the book either, but even so I am inclined to
agree
>> with you. There is not enough in SAYC to fill a book, IMO, so your
guess
>> would be my guess also, unless it is in large text and spells out
*every*
>> auction in SAYC.
>>
>> The book was written to make money, obviously, like any book written.
If
>> the motive were "helping people learn SAYC" it would be free. SAYC
>> notes
>> are free from several sources.
>
> Au contraire. Charley G. had no problem filling up hundreds of pages
> explaining 4CM, Stayman, and Blackwood. Neither did other authors
> (notably Dick Frey and Freddy Sheinwold, and for a good expert level
> read from the past, Miles "How to Win at Duplicate Bridge"). Simply
> because there are not a lot of conventions does not mean that the
> underlying structure and meaning of natural treatments are self
> evident. I think a good beginner/intermediate exposition of SAYC with
> material on hand evaluation, control bidding in slam auctions,
> defensive bidding, and optional treatments such as whether to open 1NT
> with a 5 card major could easily run to 300 pithy pages for the genre,
> and would have a lot more value than a set of free notes.
>
> == Bill Shutts
Have you checked any of the free notes for their value? I know, know...
I
have no leg to stand on to ask you this, not having seen the book in
question myself.... but have you looked at any of the free sources, most
notably the original at
http://web2.acbl.org/do***entlibrary/play/SP3%20(bk)%20single%20pages.pdf
It does go into detail more than mere system notes. It is hard for me to
imagine what more one needs to know in order to play SAYC and understand
how
it works.
Raija
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