Re: self-explanations and self-alerts

On Apr 24, 5:20 am, dranon <dra...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:14:38 -0700 (PDT), OldPalooka
>
>
>
> <ashut...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >On Apr 22, 8:37 pm, Barry Margolin <bar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> In article
> >> <85ed2b3e-062b-48eb-a16d-eb16a8361...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
>
> >>  OldPalooka <ashut...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> > On Apr 21, 6:37 pm, Barry Margolin <bar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> > > In article
> >> > >
<57212331-5527-45cf-bc79-2b53c79e8...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
>
> >> > >  OldPalooka <ashut...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> > > > > The information consistent with the presumed, agreed upon
system.
> >> > > > > Some sites say that is SAYC, others say something else. ALL
of them
> >> > > > > say that in the absence of a discussion, there IS a presumed
system.
>
> >> > > > > Gee, I wonder why they do that?
>
> >> > > > Gee, I wonder where they publish these conditions.  Not that I
doubt
> >> > > > you -- OK I doubt you because I have never seen such a
presumption of
> >> > > > system and expect that I am in the 98% who have not.
>
> >> > > Have you played online much?  On BBO and OKbridge, many
tournaments say
> >> > > things like "If you don't post a convention card, you're assumed
to be
> >> > > playing SAYC."
>
> >> > > --
> >> > > Barry Margolin, bar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > Arlington, MA
> >> > > *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group
***
>
> >> > I don't play online tournaments, AFAIK this is the first mention
> >> > online tournaments up to this point.  That is an entirely different
> >> > situation to the one described which is open play and observed no
> >> > chat.
>
> >> What do you think "some sites" above refers to?  It's talking about
> >> Internet sites.  I don't think real world bridge venues are typically
> >> called "sites".
>
> >> And this thread started with discussion of online bridge.  The first
two
> >> sentences of the original post were:
>
> >> > My memory is that on OKBridge, the bidder self-alerted his/her bid
and
> >> > explained it to opps upon request.
>
> >> > Is it still that way? Is BBO that way?
>
> >> --
> >> Barry Margolin, bar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Arlington, MA
> >> *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***
>
> >Precisely Barry, where is there a mention of tournament play in the OP
> >or anywhere else up to your contribution on about the 88th post?  I
> >don't play a lot of online bridge, but I do drop into a random game in
> >the open room for self flagellation from time to time, and I can
> >promise you there is no presumption of system there, which is
> >perversely part of the attraction if taken in small doses.
>
> >Since dranon forgot to put his <irony> tag in his folderol post, and
> >came out stating rather obnoxiously as *fact* that there *must* be
> >some basic agreement [a view I later found out in another post was
> >officially held on OKB after I quit ponying up my $100], and since
> >that statement completely contradicts observed facts in sessions I
> >have played as recently as yesterday, I felt his contribution deserved
> >- well flack.  Actually, dranon also posted far far away that his real
> >approach to the game is much more sensible and hospitable, so I
> >deduced he forgot his tag. And I did not think to tag my contribution
> ><I'm from Missouri>.
>
> If flack is the worst I get on any given day, it is a successful day.
> ;-)
>
> Your experience still differs from mine.  I still say it is irrational
> to sit down, make a bid and not have a presumed agreement with respect
> to basic system.  Now, your presumption may be incorrect.  But I still
> think there must be a presumption.  To do otherwise just simply isn't
> bridge.
>
> I thought that some SO's had rules against destructive bidding?  I
> submit that opening without a basic system in place is defacto
> destructive bidding.  OK, flack doors wide open.

Everyone makes assumptions and presumptions about what the others are
doing.  Since they are assumptions and presumptions, they are not
agreements in even the loosest sense.  In random play in the open room
I maintain you are not entitled to my assumptions, because you are not
entitled to know more than my partner****p knows. This is not a case of
Bob and Peter guessing with no discussion, they have 4 decades of
intense experience as opponents and know each other's game well
enough.  As soon as we play a few hands and have some history, this
starts to change.  == Bill Shutts