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Gaming > Bridge > Re: great idea ...
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Re: great idea -- explain own bids

by Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Apr 21, 2008 at 05:20 AM

Often -- especially in the old days -- a partner****p agreement was
expressed in terms of meaning. For example, we would agree that
opening 1 of a major showed 12-21 HCP and at least 5 cards in that
major. In this situation, telling opps the meaning of the bid and
telling opps the agreement are about the same. I believe people will
often say "That shows 12-21 HCP and at least 5 hearts", expressing
meaning instead of agreement.

If the complete verbal agreement is "Cappelletti", you are not allowed
to say Cappelletti. Actually at the table, "Cappelletti" is a
perfectly acceptable answer if the opps know the meaning of
Cappelletti. If they don't, then you have to tell them the meaning of
the bids you are making.

Or, the Precision 1D opener can and probably should be defined as an
opening hand lacking any other opening bid. You could, in theory, tell
the opps just your agreements and let them infer meaning. They will
probably be pissed and ask you to just tell them the meaning of the
bid. I suspect most directors, when called, will also be pissed at
you. In fact, most Precision players I know try to describe the
meaning of the 1 Diamond bid.

Or, suppose you agree that when partner opens the bidding on the one
level, responder does not make nonforcing bids short of game. Also, if
partner opens 1H, responder does not make nonforcing bids except in
hearts and once responder bids hearts any bids in any other suits are
forcing.

You agree to open 1 heart whenever you want to.

Now your partner opens 1H. You explain "That means he wants to open 1
heart." What are the chances that the opps will be happy? You offer to
explain all of the rest of your system? That's an information dump.
You offer to explain all of the conventions that are relevant to
understanding the MEANING of the 1 heart opener? Now we are getting
somewhere, though that word meaning has somehow snuck into an attempt
to tell agreements instead of meaning. And when you are done, your
opps will paraphrase, saying "So you open 1H with an opening hand and
5 or more hearts?" And they will be pissed.

If we get to claiming damage (mi***planation), the first thing that
has to happen is that the opps did not understand the MEANING of your
partner's bid.

Okay, past experience can lead to an implicit agreement. But I think
opps just want to know meaning. If my partner has three times in a row
balanced 1NT with 15-17 HCP, that does not contradict our agreement
that this bid shows 11-14 HCP. Those are all misbids, and if she does
it again, that's a misbid too. But until she gets it right once, I
think the opps deserve to hear about how past experience leads to the
possibility of a misbid.

I heard a story that at language class at the University of
Wa****ngton, a Chinese student claimed confidently that Chinese was not
a tone language, and then was quite amazed to find out it was. Same
thing here. Basically, players say the meaning of their bids and
expect to hear the meanings of bid. The laws speak of "agreements",
but that only makes a lot of sense when the agreements are expressed
in terms of meanings.
 




 107 Posts in Topic:
great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-20 22:09:40 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-20 22:24:30 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
"raija d" <m  2008-04-20 22:47:37 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-23 12:26:07 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-23 07:17:36 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
"raija d" <m  2008-04-23 09:42:30 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-24 05:30:39 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl  2008-04-21 01:57:29 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Barry Margolin <barmar  2008-04-21 02:11:17 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-21 15:12:33 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Barry Margolin <barmar  2008-04-21 20:22:41 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-22 00:32:58 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
=?Windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen  2008-04-23 12:04:59 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-21 15:05:35 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-20 22:49:06 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Barry Margolin <barmar  2008-04-21 02:02:50 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-20 23:10:52 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
"raija d" <m  2008-04-21 00:12:15 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-24 02:31:18 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-24 05:31:19 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-24 15:01:55 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-25 02:57:15 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Alan Malloy <alan.NO.S  2008-04-24 11:42:11 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-25 02:58:53 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-20 23:17:32 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-20 23:44:27 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Barry Margolin <barmar  2008-04-21 02:51:44 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-21 15:20:21 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-21 05:20:31 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-25 14:24:48 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-25 12:48:33 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-25 21:36:25 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-25 16:35:41 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-21 14:10:53 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-21 07:52:24 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-21 07:55:57 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
blackshoe <blackshoe@[  2008-04-21 08:19:38 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-21 09:07:49 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-21 16:16:31 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-21 09:22:39 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
BBO expert <nym@[EMAIL  2008-04-21 13:38:36 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
blackshoe <blackshoe@[  2008-04-21 09:23:10 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
BBO expert <nym@[EMAIL  2008-04-21 13:39:50 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
blackshoe <blackshoe@[  2008-04-21 09:18:10 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-21 09:49:21 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-21 10:19:24 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-21 10:26:49 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-21 19:20:16 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-21 18:45:02 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-21 18:55:43 
The F2F Boondoggel. -- great idea -- explain own bids
Kent Feiler <zzzz@[EMA  2008-04-21 15:16:04 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Barry Margolin <barmar  2008-04-21 20:26:43 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-22 00:30:45 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-22 00:01:41 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-21 16:26:59 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Peter Smulders <dev0@[  2008-04-22 11:13:07 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-22 10:42:54 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Peter Smulders <dev0@[  2008-04-23 00:35:09 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-22 16:01:47 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Kent Feiler <zzzz@[EMA  2008-04-22 09:56:51 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Steve Grant <ACE1242@[  2008-04-22 18:45:50 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-22 23:09:26 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Peter Smulders <dev0@[  2008-04-23 11:03:24 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
BBO expert <nym@[EMAIL  2008-04-23 09:27:50 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-23 13:42:39 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Peter Smulders <dev0@[  2008-04-23 17:19:31 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-23 12:42:21 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Kent Feiler <zzzz@[EMA  2008-04-23 11:22:55 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Kent Feiler <zzzz@[EMA  2008-04-23 11:11:55 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-23 19:21:45 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Kent Feiler <zzzz@[EMA  2008-04-23 15:19:45 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-22 02:23:52 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Barry Margolin <barmar  2008-04-21 21:55:15 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
blackshoe <blackshoe@[  2008-04-21 20:02:34 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
BBO expert <nym@[EMAIL  2008-04-22 10:46:35 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
"raija d" <m  2008-04-22 09:28:46 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-22 10:41:42 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
blackshoe <blackshoe@[  2008-04-21 20:30:19 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
BBO expert <nym@[EMAIL  2008-04-22 10:49:10 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-22 15:33:12 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
blackshoe <blackshoe@[  2008-04-22 08:01:29 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
BBO expert <nym@[EMAIL  2008-04-22 12:28:05 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
gazelle@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-22 16:26:52 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
OldPalooka <ashutts1@[  2008-04-22 10:05:22 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-22 10:30:19 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
BBO expert <nym@[EMAIL  2008-04-22 15:09:03 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
OldPalooka <ashutts1@[  2008-04-22 10:38:30 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
BBO expert <nym@[EMAIL  2008-04-22 15:02:56 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
OldPalooka <ashutts1@[  2008-04-22 10:47:47 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-22 11:47:43 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
OldPalooka <ashutts1@[  2008-04-22 10:55:22 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
OldPalooka <ashutts1@[  2008-04-22 10:57:05 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
OldPalooka <ashutts1@[  2008-04-22 17:21:22 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Adam Beneschan <adam@[  2008-04-22 18:25:20 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-23 12:28:51 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
dranon <dranon@[EMAIL   2008-04-23 07:18:29 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-23 12:49:19 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Kent Feiler <zzzz@[EMA  2008-04-23 12:42:26 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Adam Beneschan <adam@[  2008-04-23 12:42:59 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Kent Feiler <zzzz@[EMA  2008-04-23 15:54:23 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-23 19:30:42 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
blackshoe <blackshoe@[  2008-04-23 23:35:46 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-24 08:41:49 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
blackshoe <blackshoe@[  2008-04-24 15:04:21 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-25 06:01:46 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
blackshoe <blackshoe@[  2008-04-25 06:48:43 
Re: great idea -- explain own bids
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-25 07:50:27 

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tan12V112 Fri Jul 25 0:41:16 CDT 2008.