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Gaming > Bridge > 2NT 2C whoops 3...
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2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)

by Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Apr 11, 2008 at 05:22 PM

New laws. Pd opens 2NT, you bid 2C Stayman, and want to correct to 3C
without barring partner from the auction using 27B1(b):

 if ... the insufficient bid is corrected with a legal call that in
the Director's opinion has the same meaning* as, or a more precise
meaning* than, the insufficient bid (such meaning being fully
contained within the possible meanings of the insufficient bid) the
auction proceeds without further rectification...

* the meaning of (information available from) a call is
the knowledge of what it shows and what it excludes.

I posted that you could do this (assuming you weren't playing Puppet
Stayman over 2NT and not over 1NT).

David Stevenson disagreed and suggested I start a new thread if I
wanted to discuss it.

Then I decided David was right. Ignoring garbage/weak/nonforcing
Stayman, 2C over 1NT shows around 8+ points, whereas 3C over 2NT shows
around 5+ points. Adding in garbage stayman seemed to muddy the waters
but not change the answer.

And now I have flipped again back to it being okay (and hence will
start a new thread). I was viewing 2C as showing information about a
hand (say, a 4-card major and enough points to invite to game,
depending on system). Another way to look at it is simply an asking
bid -- partner, do you have a 4 card-major?

And in that sense, 3C (over 2NT) has the same meaning as 2C (over
1NT). So it would be an allowable substitution that does not bar
partner from auction.

I am sympathetic to a director who doesn't want to view it that way,
because after all I wasn't viewing it that way. But the probably
intent of the laws was to allow the 3 Clubs correction without
penalty, and that does seem like the better ruling (if both are
potentially legal).

Frustrating.
 




 45 Posts in Topic:
2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-11 17:22:48 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Dave Flower <DavJFlowe  2008-04-12 04:58:56 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
grazyisaac@[EMAIL PROTECT  2008-04-12 06:42:48 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
grazyisaac@[EMAIL PROTECT  2008-04-12 06:48:15 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-12 07:05:02 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Michael Angelo Ravera <  2008-04-12 11:13:02 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Stu Goodgold <stugo@[E  2008-04-12 11:22:39 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Stu Goodgold <stugo@[E  2008-04-12 11:29:26 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Dave Flower <DavJFlowe  2008-04-12 11:50:10 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Alan Malloy <alan.NO.S  2008-04-12 18:17:56 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
blackshoe <blackshoe@[  2008-04-12 14:56:04 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-12 23:39:57 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-12 23:48:17 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
grazyisaac@[EMAIL PROTECT  2008-04-12 17:18:48 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-13 01:49:59 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-12 19:32:10 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Hans Georg Schaathun <  2008-04-13 19:02:53 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Michael Angelo Ravera <  2008-04-13 02:47:38 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Michael Angelo Ravera <  2008-04-13 03:00:23 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
CBFalconer <cbfalconer  2008-04-12 21:05:15 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Stu Goodgold <stugo@[E  2008-04-13 11:35:26 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-13 12:16:43 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Hans Georg Schaathun <  2008-04-13 20:10:47 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
msb@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (M  2008-04-13 17:46:49 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
"rthearle@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-13 12:36:49 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-14 01:11:56 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Hans Georg Schaathun <  2008-04-14 17:51:42 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-14 13:43:34 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Tim <thg@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-04-14 15:46:27 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
"raija d" <m  2008-04-14 22:09:03 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Tim <thg@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-04-14 15:57:16 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Stu Goodgold <stugo@[E  2008-04-15 11:23:25 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-16 01:02:21 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-16 01:09:27 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Hans Georg Schaathun <  2008-04-16 07:39:23 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Tim <thg@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-04-15 17:35:54 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-16 02:06:56 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Bob <rfrick@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-15 18:22:03 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-16 13:01:20 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Alan Malloy <alan.NO.S  2008-04-16 10:57:18 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Hans Georg Schaathun <  2008-04-16 18:25:30 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Hans Georg Schaathun <  2008-04-16 21:25:21 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-16 13:05:08 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
David Stevenson <bridg  2008-04-17 15:40:12 
Re: 2NT 2C whoops 3C (Stayman)
Hans Georg Schaathun <  2008-04-17 17:18:26 

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tan12V112 Sat Aug 30 6:34:25 CDT 2008.