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Gaming > Abstract (perfect information, pure strategy) > Re: The Future ...
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Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential heresy

by richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROTECTED] Apr 4, 2008 at 10:12 PM

On Apr 4, 3:27 am, Harald Korneliussen <vinterm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> You are ambitious on the behalf of abstract games, I respect that. But
> I just don't agree that we need to change chess to "buy it another
> 1000 years" or even a hundred. For one thing, Chess will live on even
> if it doesn't become mainstream (or mainstream enough for you). For
> the other, Chess has not stopped evolving, although it may look
> superficially like it.
>
> It's just that today, the benefit of playing with well-established
> rules we've spent decades exploring outweighs the benefits that can be
> had from tweaking them. The chess players say so, by continuing to
> prefer it. It's their call to make - sorry if I'm wrong, but I don't
> think either of us (or Sanny) are good enough Chess players to decide
> the future of that game. We're just not the main stakeholders in this.
>
> If Chess really was in danger of being "solved" or turned into a less
> satisfying game, steps would be taken, like they were in competition
> Checkers. Chess players would then start to switch over more
> permanently to these conservative variants that various grandmasters
> have proposed.

The thing is that there is momentum in place with chess that keeps it
as is.  The rules also favor the current champion to push draws.
Players on the lower levels, which doesn't matter to the media, don't
see this at all.  And then there is the whole political mess that is
causing the game to not consider new options, but to rally around the
rules, as they are, because it is the rare island of stability.  Put
all these things together, and you aren't going to have any change
going on at all.  This goes all way from Reformed Chess with the new
pawn, to the use of a Bronstein clock, or even something as simple as
a change in the scoring system to change ties.  Things on the whole
are set up that the momentum of tradition squashes anything else,
eventhough people may keep to themselves they would want this change
or that.

If you don't think this momentum is an issue, consider checkers.  The
tournament checkers sets are red and white checkers on a green and
pale board.  Why aren't these sets available, yet checkers is still
sold?  It is the momentum of tradition, which has had an impact on
professional checkers, by the way.  It is red and black checkers on a
red and black board.  This is because this is how it always has been
done, over 100 years now.  People buy them because they are the only
thing available.

What I was considering and proposing is something that not a single
person would do.  But, proposing a possible framework for people to
experiment in and develop a consensus over, that would integrate the
fullness of chess into it.  It would also allow for an experiential
base by which the chess community could then be able to try out new
options, be accepted, and be able to adjust how chess is played the
way the NFL makes needed changes to football, in order to facilitate
its growth.  All s****ts do this, by the way, well at least the ones
that want to keep growing.   Please state what similar changes chess
has made over the past 100 years to facilitate growth?  Has it done
any?

And for those who think that ties are the norm, they use tie-breaker
methods in soccer even, and also NHL hockey uses a shootout.  But
chess isn't a s****t, right?  So if someone is going to argue that,
then why argue in defense of ties by bringing up soccer (football)?

- Rich
 




 157 Posts in Topic:
The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential heresy f
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-02 09:43:55 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Sanny <softtanks@[EMAI  2008-04-02 09:56:13 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Nick Wedd <nick@[EMAIL  2008-04-02 18:15:39 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-02 17:22:30 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Sanny <softtanks@[EMAI  2008-04-02 10:27:40 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
"marksteere@[EMAIL P  2008-04-02 12:09:55 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Erich Schneider <erich  2008-04-03 10:49:18 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-02 13:49:28 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-02 14:10:20 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-02 21:10:59 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-02 14:20:56 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-02 14:48:19 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-02 14:50:19 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
"David Kane" &l  2008-04-02 15:14:53 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-02 18:03:31 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-02 18:07:17 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-02 18:19:37 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
"marksteere@[EMAIL P  2008-04-02 20:51:25 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-02 22:57:50 
Arimaa / Re: The Future of Chess ...
"Wlodzimierz Holszty  2008-04-03 00:41:05 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-03 03:22:44 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-03 20:10:28 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-03 20:19:46 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-03 20:24:06 
Re: Arimaa / Re: The Future of Chess ...
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-03 13:56:23 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-03 14:02:09 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Chris Mattern <syscjm@  2008-04-03 17:28:43 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-03 23:16:47 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Phil Carmody <thefatph  2008-04-04 11:04:27 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-03 15:13:30 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-03 15:15:57 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-03 15:29:44 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-03 22:52:38 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-03 23:19:10 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-03 18:12:52 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-03 18:22:28 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-04 14:00:57 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-03 19:13:14 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-03 19:30:11 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"David Kane" &l  2008-04-03 20:22:51 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"marksteere@[EMAIL P  2008-04-03 23:57:38 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"David Kane" &l  2008-04-04 09:42:55 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Harald Korneliussen <v  2008-04-04 00:27:46 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Harald Korneliussen <v  2008-04-04 01:18:38 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Ed Murphy <emurphy42@[  2008-04-05 03:55:03 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Harald Korneliussen <v  2008-04-04 01:26:44 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
"Wlodzimierz Holszty  2008-04-04 02:33:46 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
"Wlodzimierz Holszty  2008-04-04 02:39:52 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
"Wlodzimierz Holszty  2008-04-04 03:03:20 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-04 04:44:57 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-04 04:47:03 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-04 14:09:38 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-04 14:43:06 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-04 10:38:07 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-04 10:43:20 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
"Wlodzimierz Holszty  2008-04-04 12:33:54 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Christopher Dearlove <  2008-04-04 21:25:24 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Harald Korneliussen <v  2008-04-04 15:32:39 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-04 21:50:19 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-04 22:01:48 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-04 22:12:03 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-04 22:14:44 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-04 22:17:03 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-04 22:38:43 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Ed Murphy <emurphy42@[  2008-04-05 04:53:33 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-04 22:49:17 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 02:43:28 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 02:48:10 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 02:52:58 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Nick Wedd <nick@[EMAIL  2008-04-05 13:49:58 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
SBD <DrDowd@[EMAIL PRO  2008-04-05 06:49:42 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 07:33:21 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 07:36:25 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 09:12:09 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 09:17:47 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 09:51:01 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 09:55:25 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"Chess One" <  2008-04-05 13:13:18 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-05 17:28:28 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 09:58:39 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 10:01:55 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-05 17:16:43 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Harald Korneliussen <v  2008-04-05 11:00:28 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 11:03:45 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-05 17:50:58 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Harald Korneliussen <v  2008-04-05 11:25:48 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 13:46:51 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 13:55:53 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 14:03:08 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Harald Korneliussen <v  2008-04-05 15:45:25 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 16:31:11 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 16:34:37 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-05 16:59:52 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 22:13:07 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 22:17:15 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 22:20:03 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 22:24:56 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-05 22:31:50 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Nick Wedd <nick@[EMAIL  2008-04-06 08:44:46 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-06 01:46:24 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-06 02:14:56 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"marksteere@[EMAIL P  2008-04-06 08:21:09 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-06 08:41:49 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-06 09:05:21 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"marksteere@[EMAIL P  2008-04-06 11:07:11 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-06 11:35:08 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-06 20:25:58 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-06 21:04:23 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-06 21:13:31 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"marksteere@[EMAIL P  2008-04-06 14:40:35 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-06 19:32:25 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-06 19:45:44 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-06 21:20:39 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-06 21:21:58 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
richardhutnik@[EMAIL PROT  2008-04-06 21:28:24 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"marksteere@[EMAIL P  2008-04-06 21:58:15 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Harald Korneliussen <v  2008-04-07 00:23:14 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-07 08:19:13 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-07 18:05:32 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-13 22:52:01 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-13 23:15:58 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Harald Korneliussen <v  2008-04-15 03:19:58 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
jsavard@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-15 11:43:19 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Nick Wedd <nick@[EMAIL  2008-04-15 12:06:22 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
jsavard@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-04-15 11:44:12 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
David Richerby <davidr  2008-04-17 15:16:49 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Rich Hutnik <richardhu  2008-04-17 15:23:55 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
anw@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (A  2008-04-18 00:59:45 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
David Richerby <davidr  2008-04-18 15:09:17 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-17 19:18:19 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
John Bailey <john_bail  2008-04-18 09:40:51 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-18 17:15:38 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
John Bailey <john_bail  2008-04-18 22:18:01 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Tim Little <tim@[EMAIL  2008-04-18 21:34:51 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Guy Macon <http://www.  2008-04-19 07:27:50 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
John Bailey <john_bail  2008-04-19 08:15:58 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
David Richerby <davidr  2008-04-19 19:23:12 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
David Bernier <david25  2008-04-19 17:55:51 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
anw@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (A  2008-04-18 17:09:51 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Rich Hutnik <richardhu  2008-04-17 22:26:46 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
David Richerby <davidr  2008-04-18 15:24:48 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Denis Feldmann <feldma  2008-04-18 16:51:04 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-19 19:07:46 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"jeremy.p.spinrad@[E  2008-04-19 20:18:33 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Christopher Dearlove <  2008-04-20 12:06:48 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Christopher Dearlove <  2008-04-20 12:11:35 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-20 11:53:16 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck" (potential here
Quadibloc <jsavard@[EM  2008-04-20 12:14:03 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"zzbunker@[EMAIL PRO  2008-05-06 16:04:59 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
David Richerby <davidr  2008-05-07 14:32:56 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"zzbunker@[EMAIL PRO  2008-05-07 08:41:37 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Ed Murphy <emurphy42@[  2008-05-07 21:16:44 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Tim Little <tim@[EMAIL  2008-05-08 08:08:21 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
dean.menezes@[EMAIL PROTE  2008-05-08 06:57:52 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Rich Hutnik <richardhu  2008-05-11 14:12:57 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
"Chess One" <  2008-05-12 10:02:03 
Re: The Future of Chess and Getting It "Unstuck"
Rich Hutnik <richardhu  2008-05-12 09:35:00 

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tan12V112 Sat Jul 26 2:26:43 CDT 2008.